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Since the new Firefox UI updates, I really feel like I’m maybe the only one who actually likes the new look. Everything I read about Firefox lately is overwhelm

Since the new Firefox UI updates, I really feel like I’m maybe the only one who actually likes the new look. Everything I read about Firefox lately is overwhelmingly negative. Either that, or it’s just the negative opinions being amplified and folks who are happy/satisfied just keep it to themselves. From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? There’s a clear pattern: icon, title, close “x”. I’ve liked the direction Firefox has been going in. It’s my primary browser again after a few years of Chrome. I can’t be alone in preferring the updated look, I’m sure there are dozens of us.

JohnTHaller 5y ago
Same here. I feel like every UI update is pretty minor tweaking. But then I see comments that people are going to change browsers over it.
hypeatei 5y ago
Agreed, I recently switched from Brave and like the UI much better than any Chromium based browser.
- artdigital 5y ago
  I went the other way - after years of boycotting chromium browsers I switched to Brave (and turned off all the BAT ads stuff). Stuff like built-in IPFS (including ipns domainlink), TOR, crypto wallets, adblocker, CMD-SHIFT-A to jump to recent things. It feels like it's the browser that's innovating the most and tries out new things all the time, kinda what firefox used to do in the past.
  - BMorearty 5y ago
    I haven’t tried Brave but speaking of CMD-SHIFT-A (which also works in Chrome), I’ve learned that Firefox has a CTRL-TAB feature that works better IMO (easier keystroke and it works just like CMD-TAB). It’s optional. The option is called “Ctrl+Tab cycles through tabs in recently used order.”
secabeen 5y ago
Yeah, and when you mouseover, the tab target shows up.
poglet 5y ago
I like it too but would just like to point out, if you have too many tabs open the 'x' disappears. To close the tab, you now require an additional click - one to select it, then another to press the 'x' button. I don't recall if this was the same experience in the previous version.
- joveian 5y ago
  Why use the 'x' when you can just middle click to close? I also like the new look. I've had a hard time quickly identifying the active tab so this way seems best to me.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    I use a MacBook with a touchpad so there is no middle click (at least not easy to do)
    - hagbard_c 5y ago
      Three-finger-click works fine for me using an Apple wireless trackpad on Linux, doesn't that work for you?
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        I think I have that disabled as I don't find it very easy to do.
      - plorkyeran 5y ago
        I personally find three-finger clicking on a tab to be more difficult than one-finger clicking on the x.
    - joveian 5y ago
      I thought a mac might be involved somehow but didn't consider touchpads. I guess even PCs have annoying touchpads with no real buttons these days. I really can't stand touchpads in general and avoid them. Unfortunately even Lenovo seems to rarely have trackpoints these days.
krater23 5y ago
Do you work in a UI job? Sounds like. I think everyone else is hating it.
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I do not. I’m a software engineer. I prefer clean and minimal interfaces and I think Firefox does a good job with that. And judging by some other responses, I’m happy to hear that I’m not alone.
  - krater23 5y ago
    I like functional interfaces, where you can distinguish clickable fields from each other. And where you can distinguish clickable from non-clickable fields. And judging by some other responses, I’m happy to hear that I’m not alone.
- sarsway 5y ago
  I think you vastly overestimate "everyone else". I use Firefox and didn't even notice the change. So tabs don't have borders now, ok honestly whatever... Maybe try not to get hung up on these things and move on with life.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    Same. I think I've just gotten used to things changing a little bit over time. Releases are generally well thought out enough that they don't break any mental models or workflows, even when the UI noticeably changes (which in this case, it didn't for me)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  UI people seem to start with the idea that they're right and the user should just suck it up, because they went to school and learned words like "skeumorphic." This is apparently sufficient for middle management, despite the fact that when this trend of constant annoying pointless changes started, so did the decline of Firefox's user base. I don't even install it by rote on new computers anymore - it might as well be Edge. The rendering performance sucks, the need to constantly adapt to new ui changes is infuriating, so buh-bye Firefox. I prefer software that doesn't screw with my muscle memory for absolutely zero good reasons. UI as a "discipline" is cargo cult corporate waste. I'd rather use a tool designed by an engineer that uses it than performance art disguised as ergonomics or accessibility. If it looks good, fine, but the point of a browser isn't pretty tabs, it's navigating content in a way that doesn't interfere with navigating content.
pavon 5y ago
For the most part I agree. However, with the number of tabs I have open the close button is usually hidden, and Firefox doesn't show a default icon for websites that don't have a favicon (not sure if this is new or old behavior). I often open up a bunch of text files in tabs from a FTP-like site without a favicon, and sometimes it is hard to tell where one tab ends and the next begins in the new interface.
alexfrydl 5y ago
I've been using Firefox for about as long as a person could possibly have been using Firefox and I think this just happens every time they change the UI.
- krater23 5y ago
  Maybee because all UI decisions in this time make it even worse?
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    There is always a shock when a new design comes out. There was so much hate for the border less design youtube has right now but when I look back at older youtubes and older versions of almost anything, the new ones certainly feel better. The only exception was the original iOS. They both hold up today. The original was a little cheesy but was still close enough to classy to work.
    - birksherty 5y ago
      Just looks better and now we are used to it. Functionality is not better. We now have to think more about before clicking buttons and more load on brain.
- anothernewdude 5y ago
  The best UI is the one that you are familiar with. Messing with UI for little gain is a middle finger to existing users. Hope their "increased adoption" is worth annoying all their current users.
userbinator 5y ago
Maybe you're just the part of the population that loves constant change. I hate it because I see my software as a tool, not a fashion statement, and I don't need my tools changing all the time.
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I wouldn’t say I love constant change. I think the tool is better and more functional now. It’s more consistent and less distracting.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    How are the new tabs more consistent?
    - Barrin92 5y ago
      there's a pretty clear trend towards flatter, cleaner design with more space both within Firefox and other software. Whether you approve of it or not, it's hard to argue that the changes to the Firefox UI including the tabs don't make it look more like modern UIs in general. Be that Windows or Gnome, or web-based desktop apps etc...
      - pseudalopex 5y ago
        The new tabs look less like tabs in Chrome or any other app.
      - josefx 5y ago
        > cleaner design with more space Why would I want the UI to take up more space? I am using it as a browser, most of the space should be available for the page I "browse" or serve as an efficient way to navigate pages. > don't make it look more like modern UIs If making something look more modern is the goal just take a dump in the middle of an art gallery, that is plenty of modern and about as functional. > Be that Windows or Gnome Edge still has proper tabs, so are you just making shit up now?
neltnerb 5y ago
I think my problem with it is two-fold, but I acknowledge I'm not some kind of UI expert. First, I dislike that I cannot quickly count how many things there are. Borders also make me feel more confident in locating a button. Second, by detaching the borders from the main window it disconnects the analogy of a "tab" as a, well, tab. Now a button takes you to a new window, but I dislike that it breaks a long-standing analogy that is easy to grasp. More importantly, it's really hard to see the upside. That's usually why people complain about UI changes in Firefox or anywhere else -- if you can't elucidate what the upside is, all anyone can see is downsides. And mild lack of familiarity is enough downside to outweigh an inexplicable change with no upside obvious.
- fivre 5y ago
  if Mozilla did lay out their rationale, it'd be a lot easier to get past lacking UI expertise or being unable to see upsides (while seeing clear downsides). UI changes attract a lot of ire from current users in general--this isn't a Mozilla-specific thing--but Firefox is ostensibly an open, OSS project. there shouldn't be much organizational discretion to just keep UI research or data private: Mozilla should be more than happy to share data or UX research demonstrating why they're making changes, but they don't. absent explanation from Mozilla or a helpful UX expert to pip up and say "the change is actually good, here's why", the changes often feel like they're either trend-chasing or change for change's sake to show that the UI designer's salary isn't going to waste.
  - rgrmrts 5y ago
    I felt their blog post [0] kind of did that. Maybe not as detailed as you’re suggesting (which I agree would be nice to see) but it got the point across. [0]: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/news/modern-clean-new-firefox-clears-the-way-to-all-you-need-online/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/news/modern-clean-new-fi...
    - rhizome 5y ago
      I dunno, that page looks like 110% received wisdom. It's "clean," "inviting," "streamlining," and so on. All positives, sounds like every change listed is awesome! "Good design is invisible. So if things just work, you don’t really think about it." Ah yes, and if you can't see the benefits of a change, that just means you're blind to its invisibly good design. "Bookmark bar – About 5% of the clicks go to the section where people bookmark their frequently visited place" "5% of the clicks go to the thing we haven't touched in forever and have actually made worse over the years. Naturally we're going to continue this strategy of fostering attrition until you only ever go to the sites listed on your new tab page (which we're watching how much you use)." It's all basically that, more of doing whatever they want and calling people who don't like it wet blankets. I still don't know why they changed to that supremely unintuitive "sliding panes" menu design. Ah, such is the cost of being on the cutting edge with my ESR installation. That page says they "put a lot of thought into it," but I haven't seen where that thought might be reviewable, because I'm skeptical that a lot of thought went into this. A lot of thought may have been how to counter criticism, but that's not the same thing.
stoned 5y ago
People can't handle change. It's pretty sad. I'm not saying we need change, or that FF should be investing in changing the UI (I really think the colorways are just a terrible use of resources), but I think all the UI updates these past few years—regardless of why they were made, for good or for senseless reasons—are fine if not highly enjoyable.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  What I don't get about the colorways is that they intentionally made it for a limited time. Why would I bother getting used to a feature they're going to take away again? No matter how good it is. I don't get this.
  - stoned 5y ago
    It’s crazy. My guess is they’re trying to tap into the FOMO vibe du jour with all the NFT insanity (“drops” for example) but they don’t even know or understand their own userbase. It’s really, really weird and unsettling.
davey48016 5y ago
>Either that, or it’s just the negative opinions being amplified and folks who are happy/satisfied just keep it to themselves. I think that's it. I like this change, but not enough to post anything about how much I like it.
rvba 5y ago
Firefox used to be "the" customizable browser - where you could make it look the way you wanted. Not anymore. Addons like that dont work anymore.
- batperson 5y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ A whole sub dedicated to making firefox look however you want it to. You can edit the entire browser with css like a website.
  - account42 5y ago
    > You can edit the entire browser with css like a website. And each update you have to adjust your CSS to fix whatever the UI changes broke. That is of course until Mozilla remove userStyle.css entirely - they have already disabled it by default so for new installs you have to toggle toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets in about:config.
woodruffw 5y ago
I'm in the same boat. I didn't even notice this change but, now that I've been told about it, I like it. I also like the hover-over indicator on tabs, although it's possible that that's been around for a while and I've just never paid attention to it before.
Groxx 5y ago
Yeah, this seems fine to me. Everything's delineated by favicons already, as it has been since tabs appeared. More generally: I really like firefox developer edition's UI. It's dense and pragmatic, and I think the toolbar customizer they've built is one of the best of any application I've used. Broadly I think they've been doing stellar work, especially when they aren't blindly copying Chrome. Chrome has made some nice UI improvements that have deserved their spread, but I'm glad that Firefox has copied some and rapidly changed them, and abandoned others. Also: container tabs. They're so, so good. And the colored bar on the tab is more than sufficient to identify them IMO. The UX is a little janky when it comes to modifying your containers, but the core concept is marvelous and steadily (if slowly) improving. If you want to see "design for design's sake", look at Safari. It changes rather significantly with almost every major OS upgrade. I think they broadly get away with it because they have far fewer features, but it's kinda bonkers sometimes.
xg15 5y ago
> From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? But why do you even have to start with "is it really that hard to..."? - i.e. arguing that the change only makes things slightly worse. What actually becomes easier or better through this change?
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Less clutter. Isn't each tab clear from the fact that it starts with an icon?
  - skrap 5y ago
    No. It only works if you're so familiar with the previous UI than your pattern recognition kicks in. Someone who sees this for the first time will have no idea what it means. It's inaccessible to the novice. Also, tabs without a favicon don't start with an icon at all.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      > It's inaccessible to the novice. It doesn't seem to be the novice people speaking up against it? Or are they all acting in defence of novices they don't know?
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I’m not arguing that it makes anything slightly worse. I’m arguing that it doesn’t make it worse at all. Of course, this is subjective. I think this change is overall more consistent than previous Firefox versions (menus). I also think it removes clutter and looks simpler, cleaner, and less distracting.
  - xg15 5y ago
    But were you actually distracted by the clutter before?
- renton_wal 5y ago
gameswithgo 5y ago
paid ads in the search bar is not a good direction
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I didn’t realize this change[0] was introduced. The good news is you can disable it, the concerning part is if that lever will be removed at some point. I guess I’m more concerned about targeted ads, and my browser behavior being logged/mined (afaict this is not the case). [0]: https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/7/22715179/fir...
Gigachad 5y ago
I just got the colorways update and I absolutely _love_ the new purple look. Feels super nice and I have never had any of the "issues" people rattle off here non stop.
cdrini 5y ago
> negative opinions being amplified and folks who are happy/satisfied just keep it to themselves. Exactly this. All posts on the internet act as a selection filter; the people most likely to comment are those with strong feelings on the subject. When we read comments, we tend to think "wow, I just read 10 comments and all but one hated the UI! People must really dislike this UI". But our sample isn't random, it's heavily biased! And we develop a biased understanding of the general population -- the vast majority of whom won't have left a comment at all. Instead of thinking "9/10 people dislike this UI", it's probably closer to "9 people out of all Firefox users dislike this UI". And more exactly, it's "9 people out of all Firefox users who saw this on HackerNews dislike this UI." Actually, I wonder if you can use Bayes' theorem to get the actual population's distribution somehow...
- jdlshore 5y ago
  Agreed, the constant negativity (especially here on HN) gets very tiresome. For what it's worth, Firefox has been my daily driver for years and I'm very happy with it. The new tab design doesn't bother me at all.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    I'll be positive. I like Firefox so much that i actively avoid it. I still need to keep it because some sites do not support other browsers.
  - 0des 5y ago
    I don't take it as negativity, per se, but in my opinion more often there are people expressing concern. For many of us, Firefox began as a relationship with Netscape; over the years this has been a living and evolving relationship, with a lot of positive things, but also a few more significant negative steps back in a direction that the community/userbase find to be antithetical to the spirit of what the project is/was/claims to be. Thank you for this reply, and trip down memory lane; I hope it is well received. I'm not trying to be a contrarian, I just wanted to interrupt this glass of Metamucil to share an alternative viewpoint.
  - vanilla_nut 5y ago
belimawr 5y ago
Count me in. For me, it looks clean, and have no problems differentiating tabs. It's odd that people have a fit over this--not saying that people aren't allowed to dislike the changes but the negative reaction just seems over the top.
BMorearty 5y ago
I’m with you. I like the direction it’s going in. I’m also Firefox as my primary browser after many years of Chrome. The main tab-related visual I need is to see easily which tab is activated. That’s still easy to do with the new style.
fbhabbed 5y ago
I like the Firefox UI as well
MichaelBurge 5y ago
For what it's worth, I saw this article and only just now realized there's a lack of borders on my tabs after looking for it. And I'm somebody who likes to leave 200+ tabs open with a dozen pinned tabs, so I use them heavily. I always use favicons to separate tabs, not the borders.
cs702 5y ago
Firefox has been my main browser for a long time, and I barely even noticed the UI refresh with 94.0. It is set to use whatever the UI defaults are; I've never changed them. My only customization is to use the extension for multi-account containers. Firefox looks nice to me, does what I want and expect, and it feels fast. I suspect that for many (if not most) people who simply want to get their work done, like me, slight tweaks to the UI are not and have never been much of an issue.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  I'm in your boat. I had zero idea that this UI change had happened, nor do I know when my browser updated to FF 94. I've just been happily going about my business.
- iworshipfaangs2 5y ago
  Thirded, I guess I just am unobservant, but I just keep using it and never notice that anything has changed until I see these threads. I do use a lot of keyboard shortcuts and color-coded containers, so maybe that's part of it.
lovelyviking 5y ago
While we are still waiting for home-page to work on a new tab if your home-page is local file what can we expect from those idiots if they cannot manage to fix even that? Those idiots cannot respect me and let me choose when and what I wish to update. They bombard me with 'update available' messages jumping into my face in the middle of what I am doing, disrespecting me and my flow. No option to turn off updates completely. Again, what can we expect from such brainless idiots? Oh, but of course, they are too busy with idiotic useless facelifts. I couldn't care less about their idiotic UI "inventions" never needed in the first place. Those people simply do not know what to do thus directing their endless idiotic activity to useless BS. And then they bombard me with 'update messages' and how it is absolutely 'essential' to install their 'new' BS. Where those people are coming from I wander ? Where are those idiots created and multiply? At least they should learn respect the choice of people not to deal with them and their 'bs updates'.
sundvor 5y ago
Agreed. Got the new update then, chose one of the new themes - I really like how clean it looks. Kudos.
kevhito 5y ago
Did you get the pattern wrong? From the screenshot, it really looks like the pattern is: close "x", then title, then icon, then a gap before the next tab. At least, that's what I thought it was, and now I'm not sure. Without a border, there is no way to tell which "x" goes with which tab. Without a visual grouping using some kind of border or shading, wouldn't the "x" make more sense located next to the icon and title?
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  They were right about the pattern. You were right about how it looks.
wenc 5y ago
> From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? There’s a clear pattern: icon, title, close “x”. Yes, and if you're running the Multi-account Container extension you'll see a colored band up top that separates the tabs. Plus get all the perks of Multi-account Containers! (a feature which no other browser has I think)
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Only in the tabs that have a container though.. It would be great if it works set a generic bar for the non container tab. Because I agree it looks great, I use containers myself.
waingake 5y ago
Yeah I agree. It reminds me of all the hate that Ubuntu Unity used to get despite it being great. Seems like a very vocal minority that gets upset with UI changing at all in OS software.
- asddubs 5y ago
  that's an interesting comparison. although personally i hated the similarly received gnome 3 changes, but don't care about the firefox visual changes at all.
deleted 5y ago
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Bondi_Blue 5y ago
I'm on the same page. For those who aren't, they can modify the userChrome.css to suit their tastes- a level of customization you cannot achieve with other browsers.
II2II 5y ago
I rarely notice trivial changes these days since they are little more than change for the sake of change. Whether the change was made by bored UI designers, to keep up with the latest fashions, or to give a visual indication that the product is being updated is something that only the developers can answer. That being said, it can be more difficult to differentiate some inactive tabs. Some tabs lack a favicon (e.g. PDF files) and the close button blends into the text.
anothernewdude 5y ago
Eh, normally I'd defend Mozilla, but they can go fuck themselves after their recent behaviour and changes
marcodiego 5y ago
I feel exactly like you. For me, Firefox has only improved over time.
moralestapia 5y ago
>$0.01 in Mozilla credits have been added to your account. There's no way you can justify a change like this. Also, why change the UI? If people are using your product that's enough market proof that they are fine with it, why change it in such futile and silly ways? No one's going to start using Firefox because tabs have no borders, literally no one; yet I can see plenty of users looking at this as the drop that spilled the cup and leaving. Every single Firefox new "feature" or UI change has made them lose users, I wonder if they're doing it on purpose.
torgoguys 5y ago
>From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? There’s a clear pattern: icon, title, close “x”. Yes, there is a pattern, but that's not good enough. If the site doesn't have a favicon, that part is omitted, breaking the pattern. If the title includes emojis, they look like favicons, making another (false) pattern breakage. And looking at the same image you reference, it isn't clear why the "x" icon would close the stuff far away to the left of fromit instead of the favicon/title it is very close to. This is change for "clean design" sake, not usability. Sure, we can get used to it ok, and maybe even start talking about it being a more "beautiful" (a word thrown around waaaay too much in UI design, IMHO) design, but it is a very much less usable design and that's something some of us care about.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  The favicon is not omitted, it shows a generic globe icon then. However I agree with you otherwise, and I noticed the same about the emoji titles. I agree it feels like they care more about how cool it looks than how easy it is to use.
deleted 5y ago
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hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
And yet, I miss something I love most about open source: choice. Yes I know, in theory you can fork it and do what you want, but in practice this rule is meaningless for complex projects like kernels and browsers.

JohnTHaller 5y ago

Same here. I feel like every UI update is pretty minor tweaking. But then I see comments that people are going to change browsers over it.

hypeatei 5y ago

Agreed, I recently switched from Brave and like the UI much better than any Chromium based browser.

artdigital 5y ago
I went the other way - after years of boycotting chromium browsers I switched to Brave (and turned off all the BAT ads stuff). Stuff like built-in IPFS (including ipns domainlink), TOR, crypto wallets, adblocker, CMD-SHIFT-A to jump to recent things. It feels like it's the browser that's innovating the most and tries out new things all the time, kinda what firefox used to do in the past.
- BMorearty 5y ago
  I haven’t tried Brave but speaking of CMD-SHIFT-A (which also works in Chrome), I’ve learned that Firefox has a CTRL-TAB feature that works better IMO (easier keystroke and it works just like CMD-TAB). It’s optional. The option is called “Ctrl+Tab cycles through tabs in recently used order.”

secabeen 5y ago

Yeah, and when you mouseover, the tab target shows up.

poglet 5y ago

I like it too but would just like to point out, if you have too many tabs open the 'x' disappears. To close the tab, you now require an additional click - one to select it, then another to press the 'x' button. I don't recall if this was the same experience in the previous version.

joveian 5y ago
Why use the 'x' when you can just middle click to close? I also like the new look. I've had a hard time quickly identifying the active tab so this way seems best to me.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I use a MacBook with a touchpad so there is no middle click (at least not easy to do)
  - hagbard_c 5y ago
    Three-finger-click works fine for me using an Apple wireless trackpad on Linux, doesn't that work for you?
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I think I have that disabled as I don't find it very easy to do.
    - plorkyeran 5y ago
      I personally find three-finger clicking on a tab to be more difficult than one-finger clicking on the x.
  - joveian 5y ago
    I thought a mac might be involved somehow but didn't consider touchpads. I guess even PCs have annoying touchpads with no real buttons these days. I really can't stand touchpads in general and avoid them. Unfortunately even Lenovo seems to rarely have trackpoints these days.

krater23 5y ago

Do you work in a UI job? Sounds like. I think everyone else is hating it.

rgrmrts 5y ago
I do not. I’m a software engineer. I prefer clean and minimal interfaces and I think Firefox does a good job with that. And judging by some other responses, I’m happy to hear that I’m not alone.
- krater23 5y ago
  I like functional interfaces, where you can distinguish clickable fields from each other. And where you can distinguish clickable from non-clickable fields. And judging by some other responses, I’m happy to hear that I’m not alone.
sarsway 5y ago
I think you vastly overestimate "everyone else". I use Firefox and didn't even notice the change. So tabs don't have borders now, ok honestly whatever... Maybe try not to get hung up on these things and move on with life.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  Same. I think I've just gotten used to things changing a little bit over time. Releases are generally well thought out enough that they don't break any mental models or workflows, even when the UI noticeably changes (which in this case, it didn't for me)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
robbedpeter 5y ago
UI people seem to start with the idea that they're right and the user should just suck it up, because they went to school and learned words like "skeumorphic." This is apparently sufficient for middle management, despite the fact that when this trend of constant annoying pointless changes started, so did the decline of Firefox's user base. I don't even install it by rote on new computers anymore - it might as well be Edge. The rendering performance sucks, the need to constantly adapt to new ui changes is infuriating, so buh-bye Firefox. I prefer software that doesn't screw with my muscle memory for absolutely zero good reasons. UI as a "discipline" is cargo cult corporate waste. I'd rather use a tool designed by an engineer that uses it than performance art disguised as ergonomics or accessibility. If it looks good, fine, but the point of a browser isn't pretty tabs, it's navigating content in a way that doesn't interfere with navigating content.

pavon 5y ago

For the most part I agree. However, with the number of tabs I have open the close button is usually hidden, and Firefox doesn't show a default icon for websites that don't have a favicon (not sure if this is new or old behavior). I often open up a bunch of text files in tabs from a FTP-like site without a favicon, and sometimes it is hard to tell where one tab ends and the next begins in the new interface.

alexfrydl 5y ago

I've been using Firefox for about as long as a person could possibly have been using Firefox and I think this just happens every time they change the UI.

krater23 5y ago
Maybee because all UI decisions in this time make it even worse?
- Gigachad 5y ago
  There is always a shock when a new design comes out. There was so much hate for the border less design youtube has right now but when I look back at older youtubes and older versions of almost anything, the new ones certainly feel better. The only exception was the original iOS. They both hold up today. The original was a little cheesy but was still close enough to classy to work.
  - birksherty 5y ago
    Just looks better and now we are used to it. Functionality is not better. We now have to think more about before clicking buttons and more load on brain.
anothernewdude 5y ago
The best UI is the one that you are familiar with. Messing with UI for little gain is a middle finger to existing users. Hope their "increased adoption" is worth annoying all their current users.

userbinator 5y ago

Maybe you're just the part of the population that loves constant change. I hate it because I see my software as a tool, not a fashion statement, and I don't need my tools changing all the time.

rgrmrts 5y ago
I wouldn’t say I love constant change. I think the tool is better and more functional now. It’s more consistent and less distracting.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  How are the new tabs more consistent?
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    there's a pretty clear trend towards flatter, cleaner design with more space both within Firefox and other software. Whether you approve of it or not, it's hard to argue that the changes to the Firefox UI including the tabs don't make it look more like modern UIs in general. Be that Windows or Gnome, or web-based desktop apps etc...
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      The new tabs look less like tabs in Chrome or any other app.
    - josefx 5y ago
      > cleaner design with more space Why would I want the UI to take up more space? I am using it as a browser, most of the space should be available for the page I "browse" or serve as an efficient way to navigate pages. > don't make it look more like modern UIs If making something look more modern is the goal just take a dump in the middle of an art gallery, that is plenty of modern and about as functional. > Be that Windows or Gnome Edge still has proper tabs, so are you just making shit up now?

neltnerb 5y ago

I think my problem with it is two-fold, but I acknowledge I'm not some kind of UI expert. First, I dislike that I cannot quickly count how many things there are. Borders also make me feel more confident in locating a button. Second, by detaching the borders from the main window it disconnects the analogy of a "tab" as a, well, tab. Now a button takes you to a new window, but I dislike that it breaks a long-standing analogy that is easy to grasp. More importantly, it's really hard to see the upside. That's usually why people complain about UI changes in Firefox or anywhere else -- if you can't elucidate what the upside is, all anyone can see is downsides. And mild lack of familiarity is enough downside to outweigh an inexplicable change with no upside obvious.

fivre 5y ago
if Mozilla did lay out their rationale, it'd be a lot easier to get past lacking UI expertise or being unable to see upsides (while seeing clear downsides). UI changes attract a lot of ire from current users in general--this isn't a Mozilla-specific thing--but Firefox is ostensibly an open, OSS project. there shouldn't be much organizational discretion to just keep UI research or data private: Mozilla should be more than happy to share data or UX research demonstrating why they're making changes, but they don't. absent explanation from Mozilla or a helpful UX expert to pip up and say "the change is actually good, here's why", the changes often feel like they're either trend-chasing or change for change's sake to show that the UI designer's salary isn't going to waste.
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  I felt their blog post [0] kind of did that. Maybe not as detailed as you’re suggesting (which I agree would be nice to see) but it got the point across. [0]: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/news/modern-clean-new-firefox-clears-the-way-to-all-you-need-online/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/news/modern-clean-new-fi...
  - rhizome 5y ago
    I dunno, that page looks like 110% received wisdom. It's "clean," "inviting," "streamlining," and so on. All positives, sounds like every change listed is awesome! "Good design is invisible. So if things just work, you don’t really think about it." Ah yes, and if you can't see the benefits of a change, that just means you're blind to its invisibly good design. "Bookmark bar – About 5% of the clicks go to the section where people bookmark their frequently visited place" "5% of the clicks go to the thing we haven't touched in forever and have actually made worse over the years. Naturally we're going to continue this strategy of fostering attrition until you only ever go to the sites listed on your new tab page (which we're watching how much you use)." It's all basically that, more of doing whatever they want and calling people who don't like it wet blankets. I still don't know why they changed to that supremely unintuitive "sliding panes" menu design. Ah, such is the cost of being on the cutting edge with my ESR installation. That page says they "put a lot of thought into it," but I haven't seen where that thought might be reviewable, because I'm skeptical that a lot of thought went into this. A lot of thought may have been how to counter criticism, but that's not the same thing.

stoned 5y ago

People can't handle change. It's pretty sad. I'm not saying we need change, or that FF should be investing in changing the UI (I really think the colorways are just a terrible use of resources), but I think all the UI updates these past few years—regardless of why they were made, for good or for senseless reasons—are fine if not highly enjoyable.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
What I don't get about the colorways is that they intentionally made it for a limited time. Why would I bother getting used to a feature they're going to take away again? No matter how good it is. I don't get this.
- stoned 5y ago
  It’s crazy. My guess is they’re trying to tap into the FOMO vibe du jour with all the NFT insanity (“drops” for example) but they don’t even know or understand their own userbase. It’s really, really weird and unsettling.

davey48016 5y ago

>Either that, or it’s just the negative opinions being amplified and folks who are happy/satisfied just keep it to themselves. I think that's it. I like this change, but not enough to post anything about how much I like it.

rvba 5y ago

Firefox used to be "the" customizable browser - where you could make it look the way you wanted. Not anymore. Addons like that dont work anymore.

batperson 5y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ A whole sub dedicated to making firefox look however you want it to. You can edit the entire browser with css like a website.
- account42 5y ago
  > You can edit the entire browser with css like a website. And each update you have to adjust your CSS to fix whatever the UI changes broke. That is of course until Mozilla remove userStyle.css entirely - they have already disabled it by default so for new installs you have to toggle toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets in about:config.

woodruffw 5y ago

I'm in the same boat. I didn't even notice this change but, now that I've been told about it, I like it. I also like the hover-over indicator on tabs, although it's possible that that's been around for a while and I've just never paid attention to it before.

Groxx 5y ago

Yeah, this seems fine to me. Everything's delineated by favicons already, as it has been since tabs appeared. More generally: I really like firefox developer edition's UI. It's dense and pragmatic, and I think the toolbar customizer they've built is one of the best of any application I've used. Broadly I think they've been doing stellar work, especially when they aren't blindly copying Chrome. Chrome has made some nice UI improvements that have deserved their spread, but I'm glad that Firefox has copied some and rapidly changed them, and abandoned others. Also: container tabs. They're so, so good. And the colored bar on the tab is more than sufficient to identify them IMO. The UX is a little janky when it comes to modifying your containers, but the core concept is marvelous and steadily (if slowly) improving. If you want to see "design for design's sake", look at Safari. It changes rather significantly with almost every major OS upgrade. I think they broadly get away with it because they have far fewer features, but it's kinda bonkers sometimes.

xg15 5y ago

> From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? But why do you even have to start with "is it really that hard to..."? - i.e. arguing that the change only makes things slightly worse. What actually becomes easier or better through this change?

chrisseaton 5y ago
Less clutter. Isn't each tab clear from the fact that it starts with an icon?
- skrap 5y ago
  No. It only works if you're so familiar with the previous UI than your pattern recognition kicks in. Someone who sees this for the first time will have no idea what it means. It's inaccessible to the novice. Also, tabs without a favicon don't start with an icon at all.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > It's inaccessible to the novice. It doesn't seem to be the novice people speaking up against it? Or are they all acting in defence of novices they don't know?
rgrmrts 5y ago
I’m not arguing that it makes anything slightly worse. I’m arguing that it doesn’t make it worse at all. Of course, this is subjective. I think this change is overall more consistent than previous Firefox versions (menus). I also think it removes clutter and looks simpler, cleaner, and less distracting.
- xg15 5y ago
  But were you actually distracted by the clutter before?
renton_wal 5y ago

gameswithgo 5y ago

paid ads in the search bar is not a good direction

rgrmrts 5y ago
I didn’t realize this change[0] was introduced. The good news is you can disable it, the concerning part is if that lever will be removed at some point. I guess I’m more concerned about targeted ads, and my browser behavior being logged/mined (afaict this is not the case). [0]: https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/7/22715179/fir...

Gigachad 5y ago

I just got the colorways update and I absolutely _love_ the new purple look. Feels super nice and I have never had any of the "issues" people rattle off here non stop.

cdrini 5y ago

> negative opinions being amplified and folks who are happy/satisfied just keep it to themselves. Exactly this. All posts on the internet act as a selection filter; the people most likely to comment are those with strong feelings on the subject. When we read comments, we tend to think "wow, I just read 10 comments and all but one hated the UI! People must really dislike this UI". But our sample isn't random, it's heavily biased! And we develop a biased understanding of the general population -- the vast majority of whom won't have left a comment at all. Instead of thinking "9/10 people dislike this UI", it's probably closer to "9 people out of all Firefox users dislike this UI". And more exactly, it's "9 people out of all Firefox users who saw this on HackerNews dislike this UI." Actually, I wonder if you can use Bayes' theorem to get the actual population's distribution somehow...

jdlshore 5y ago
Agreed, the constant negativity (especially here on HN) gets very tiresome. For what it's worth, Firefox has been my daily driver for years and I'm very happy with it. The new tab design doesn't bother me at all.
- hulitu 5y ago
  I'll be positive. I like Firefox so much that i actively avoid it. I still need to keep it because some sites do not support other browsers.
- 0des 5y ago
  I don't take it as negativity, per se, but in my opinion more often there are people expressing concern. For many of us, Firefox began as a relationship with Netscape; over the years this has been a living and evolving relationship, with a lot of positive things, but also a few more significant negative steps back in a direction that the community/userbase find to be antithetical to the spirit of what the project is/was/claims to be. Thank you for this reply, and trip down memory lane; I hope it is well received. I'm not trying to be a contrarian, I just wanted to interrupt this glass of Metamucil to share an alternative viewpoint.
- vanilla_nut 5y ago

belimawr 5y ago

Count me in. For me, it looks clean, and have no problems differentiating tabs. It's odd that people have a fit over this--not saying that people aren't allowed to dislike the changes but the negative reaction just seems over the top.

BMorearty 5y ago

I’m with you. I like the direction it’s going in. I’m also Firefox as my primary browser after many years of Chrome. The main tab-related visual I need is to see easily which tab is activated. That’s still easy to do with the new style.

fbhabbed 5y ago

I like the Firefox UI as well

MichaelBurge 5y ago

For what it's worth, I saw this article and only just now realized there's a lack of borders on my tabs after looking for it. And I'm somebody who likes to leave 200+ tabs open with a dozen pinned tabs, so I use them heavily. I always use favicons to separate tabs, not the borders.

cs702 5y ago

Firefox has been my main browser for a long time, and I barely even noticed the UI refresh with 94.0. It is set to use whatever the UI defaults are; I've never changed them. My only customization is to use the extension for multi-account containers. Firefox looks nice to me, does what I want and expect, and it feels fast. I suspect that for many (if not most) people who simply want to get their work done, like me, slight tweaks to the UI are not and have never been much of an issue.

0_____0 5y ago
I'm in your boat. I had zero idea that this UI change had happened, nor do I know when my browser updated to FF 94. I've just been happily going about my business.
iworshipfaangs2 5y ago
Thirded, I guess I just am unobservant, but I just keep using it and never notice that anything has changed until I see these threads. I do use a lot of keyboard shortcuts and color-coded containers, so maybe that's part of it.

lovelyviking 5y ago

While we are still waiting for home-page to work on a new tab if your home-page is local file what can we expect from those idiots if they cannot manage to fix even that? Those idiots cannot respect me and let me choose when and what I wish to update. They bombard me with 'update available' messages jumping into my face in the middle of what I am doing, disrespecting me and my flow. No option to turn off updates completely. Again, what can we expect from such brainless idiots? Oh, but of course, they are too busy with idiotic useless facelifts. I couldn't care less about their idiotic UI "inventions" never needed in the first place. Those people simply do not know what to do thus directing their endless idiotic activity to useless BS. And then they bombard me with 'update messages' and how it is absolutely 'essential' to install their 'new' BS. Where those people are coming from I wander ? Where are those idiots created and multiply? At least they should learn respect the choice of people not to deal with them and their 'bs updates'.

sundvor 5y ago

Agreed. Got the new update then, chose one of the new themes - I really like how clean it looks. Kudos.

kevhito 5y ago

Did you get the pattern wrong? From the screenshot, it really looks like the pattern is: close "x", then title, then icon, then a gap before the next tab. At least, that's what I thought it was, and now I'm not sure. Without a border, there is no way to tell which "x" goes with which tab. Without a visual grouping using some kind of border or shading, wouldn't the "x" make more sense located next to the icon and title?

pseudalopex 5y ago
They were right about the pattern. You were right about how it looks.

wenc 5y ago

> From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? There’s a clear pattern: icon, title, close “x”. Yes, and if you're running the Multi-account Container extension you'll see a colored band up top that separates the tabs. Plus get all the perks of Multi-account Containers! (a feature which no other browser has I think)

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Only in the tabs that have a container though.. It would be great if it works set a generic bar for the non container tab. Because I agree it looks great, I use containers myself.

waingake 5y ago

Yeah I agree. It reminds me of all the hate that Ubuntu Unity used to get despite it being great. Seems like a very vocal minority that gets upset with UI changing at all in OS software.

asddubs 5y ago
that's an interesting comparison. although personally i hated the similarly received gnome 3 changes, but don't care about the firefox visual changes at all.

deleted 5y ago

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Bondi_Blue 5y ago

I'm on the same page. For those who aren't, they can modify the userChrome.css to suit their tastes- a level of customization you cannot achieve with other browsers.

II2II 5y ago

I rarely notice trivial changes these days since they are little more than change for the sake of change. Whether the change was made by bored UI designers, to keep up with the latest fashions, or to give a visual indication that the product is being updated is something that only the developers can answer. That being said, it can be more difficult to differentiate some inactive tabs. Some tabs lack a favicon (e.g. PDF files) and the close button blends into the text.

anothernewdude 5y ago

Eh, normally I'd defend Mozilla, but they can go fuck themselves after their recent behaviour and changes

marcodiego 5y ago

I feel exactly like you. For me, Firefox has only improved over time.

moralestapia 5y ago

>$0.01 in Mozilla credits have been added to your account. There's no way you can justify a change like this. Also, why change the UI? If people are using your product that's enough market proof that they are fine with it, why change it in such futile and silly ways? No one's going to start using Firefox because tabs have no borders, literally no one; yet I can see plenty of users looking at this as the drop that spilled the cup and leaving. Every single Firefox new "feature" or UI change has made them lose users, I wonder if they're doing it on purpose.

torgoguys 5y ago

>From the posted image, is it really that hard to differentiate the not active tabs? There’s a clear pattern: icon, title, close “x”. Yes, there is a pattern, but that's not good enough. If the site doesn't have a favicon, that part is omitted, breaking the pattern. If the title includes emojis, they look like favicons, making another (false) pattern breakage. And looking at the same image you reference, it isn't clear why the "x" icon would close the stuff far away to the left of fromit instead of the favicon/title it is very close to. This is change for "clean design" sake, not usability. Sure, we can get used to it ok, and maybe even start talking about it being a more "beautiful" (a word thrown around waaaay too much in UI design, IMHO) design, but it is a very much less usable design and that's something some of us care about.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
The favicon is not omitted, it shows a generic globe icon then. However I agree with you otherwise, and I noticed the same about the emoji titles. I agree it feels like they care more about how cool it looks than how easy it is to use.

deleted 5y ago

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hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

And yet, I miss something I love most about open source: choice. Yes I know, in theory you can fork it and do what you want, but in practice this rule is meaningless for complex projects like kernels and browsers.