4 ms·

Teliva – an environment for end-user programming

55 points by escot 5y ago

tluyben2 5y ago
From antirez there is load81[0] which does kind of the same and it's lovely for playing around with installing 1 thing, playing a game, breaking into the source and changing code on the fly. [0] https://github.com/antirez/load81 https://github.com/antirez/load81
akkartik 5y ago
Thanks for submitting my 4-week old project! Here's a 3-minute demo video showing what it's like to use it right now: https://archive.org/details/akkartik-2021-11-14 https://archive.org/details/akkartik-2021-11-14
Taikonerd 5y ago
This reminds me of QBasic for DOS -- you have the code and the execution environment tightly integrated. (I think QBasic did have some graphics support, though?) Thinking back on it, QBasic might have created a generation of programmers -- you would copy a working game from a friend, and then try to modify the source code to let yourself cheat.
- akkartik 5y ago
  Heh, I have another project that's recreating Basic and DOS on some level. Statement-oriented language, SVGA graphics. No networking, no virtual memory, no concurrency. Unlike its forebears, though, lots of RAM and disk, which changes many design choices. And memory-safe code as far as possible; no C anywhere in its dependencies. https://github.com/akkartik/mu https://github.com/akkartik/mu Teliva is basically providing better networking and disk support by compromising on the memory safety. (I'm back to depending hugely on C.)
- rzzzt 5y ago
  The 64K EGA card in my machine only went up to SCREEN 8 (640×200, 16 colors). SCREEN 13 was a distant dream! QB64 has a compatible statement that supports the original modes: https://www.qb64.org/wiki/SCREEN_(statement)#Legacy_Screen_Modes https://www.qb64.org/wiki/SCREEN_(statement)#Legacy_Screen_M...
- auggierose 5y ago
  Yep, my first one. If you don't count .BAT programming.
- nomemory 5y ago
  I remember when I was a kid, my father did this to a qbasic game with two monkeys throwing bananas. He eventually modified it so they can throw two instead of one.
  - akkartik 5y ago
    Oh yes, good old GORILLA.BAS
rodgerd 5y ago
This is a nice palette cleanser after the "disable view source" from the Chrome monopoly.
CGamesPlay 5y ago
If you're interested in this kind of thing, also check out the Glamorous Toolkit. It basically is a coding environment where you edit itself as it runs. https://gtoolkit.com https://gtoolkit.com
- akkartik 5y ago
  +100 for Glamorous Toolkit. I actually played with it before starting Teliva, and hope to continue using it. https://github.com/akkartik/gtConwayLife https://github.com/akkartik/gtConwayLife
- still_grokking 5y ago
  This looks awesome! It's to a large part like a modern shell environment I try to imagine since some time. Maybe it needs more data-flow spread-sheet features, need to check it out, but the screenshots strongly point into the right direction. Funny coincidence that it's build in Pharo which I've mentioned here in another comment. :-)
still_grokking 5y ago
The high level idea reminds me of Pharo: https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/ The idea to put the program and runtime together in one unit was core to Smalltalk of course but with Pharo you can get also the "IDE part" bundled. Once in a time there were even whole computers build on this concept: LISP-machines! Everything running on a LISP-machine is reachable and modifiable by the user (at runtime!) and you would have a build in IDE-like editing facility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system) > There is little protection against changing the operating system. The whole system is fully accessible and changeable. DevTools in Browsers are today the closest thing to something like that I guess. But you can only edit a webpage. It's not going down to the level of the OS of course.
sockbot 5y ago
There's a similar project called PICO-8. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php It's a virtual console, with each game released so that the source is available and editable by design. The IDE has an integrated code editor, sprite editor, and music editor. The console side has cloud access to download new games and demos.

55 points by escot 5y ago

From antirez there is load81[0] which does kind of the same and it's lovely for playing around with installing 1 thing, playing a game, breaking into the source and changing code on the fly. [0] https://github.com/antirez/load81 https://github.com/antirez/load81

akkartik 5y ago

Thanks for submitting my 4-week old project! Here's a 3-minute demo video showing what it's like to use it right now: https://archive.org/details/akkartik-2021-11-14 https://archive.org/details/akkartik-2021-11-14

Taikonerd 5y ago

This reminds me of QBasic for DOS -- you have the code and the execution environment tightly integrated. (I think QBasic did have some graphics support, though?) Thinking back on it, QBasic might have created a generation of programmers -- you would copy a working game from a friend, and then try to modify the source code to let yourself cheat.

akkartik 5y ago
Heh, I have another project that's recreating Basic and DOS on some level. Statement-oriented language, SVGA graphics. No networking, no virtual memory, no concurrency. Unlike its forebears, though, lots of RAM and disk, which changes many design choices. And memory-safe code as far as possible; no C anywhere in its dependencies. https://github.com/akkartik/mu https://github.com/akkartik/mu Teliva is basically providing better networking and disk support by compromising on the memory safety. (I'm back to depending hugely on C.)
rzzzt 5y ago
The 64K EGA card in my machine only went up to SCREEN 8 (640×200, 16 colors). SCREEN 13 was a distant dream! QB64 has a compatible statement that supports the original modes: https://www.qb64.org/wiki/SCREEN_(statement)#Legacy_Screen_Modes https://www.qb64.org/wiki/SCREEN_(statement)#Legacy_Screen_M...
auggierose 5y ago
Yep, my first one. If you don't count .BAT programming.
nomemory 5y ago
I remember when I was a kid, my father did this to a qbasic game with two monkeys throwing bananas. He eventually modified it so they can throw two instead of one.
- akkartik 5y ago
  Oh yes, good old GORILLA.BAS

rodgerd 5y ago

This is a nice palette cleanser after the "disable view source" from the Chrome monopoly.

CGamesPlay 5y ago

If you're interested in this kind of thing, also check out the Glamorous Toolkit. It basically is a coding environment where you edit itself as it runs. https://gtoolkit.com https://gtoolkit.com

akkartik 5y ago
+100 for Glamorous Toolkit. I actually played with it before starting Teliva, and hope to continue using it. https://github.com/akkartik/gtConwayLife https://github.com/akkartik/gtConwayLife
still_grokking 5y ago
This looks awesome! It's to a large part like a modern shell environment I try to imagine since some time. Maybe it needs more data-flow spread-sheet features, need to check it out, but the screenshots strongly point into the right direction. Funny coincidence that it's build in Pharo which I've mentioned here in another comment. :-)

still_grokking 5y ago

The high level idea reminds me of Pharo: https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/ The idea to put the program and runtime together in one unit was core to Smalltalk of course but with Pharo you can get also the "IDE part" bundled. Once in a time there were even whole computers build on this concept: LISP-machines! Everything running on a LISP-machine is reachable and modifiable by the user (at runtime!) and you would have a build in IDE-like editing facility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system) > There is little protection against changing the operating system. The whole system is fully accessible and changeable. DevTools in Browsers are today the closest thing to something like that I guess. But you can only edit a webpage. It's not going down to the level of the OS of course.

sockbot 5y ago

There's a similar project called PICO-8. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php It's a virtual console, with each game released so that the source is available and editable by design. The IDE has an integrated code editor, sprite editor, and music editor. The console side has cloud access to download new games and demos.