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Desktop Linux is absolutely riddled with bugs unless you have a suitably generic hardware configuration and even then you will very likely still have problems w

Desktop Linux is absolutely riddled with bugs unless you have a suitably generic hardware configuration and even then you will very likely still have problems with: - Audio - Wifi - Bluetooth - External monitors - Suspend/Resume and power management in general - many other things I abandoned it years ago. I just don't have time for that anymore.

still_grokking 5y ago
I didn't ask why you don't use Linux. (Additionally I can't confirm any of the claimed problems; using Linux as a daily driver for more than 20 years. All the mentioned things just work OOTB since many, many years). I asked why people are using an utterly broken OS where even most basic stuff like memory management is defect. (Not even asking how this could possibly pass any QA)… Even if you think Linux isn't better, it can't be worse! But Linux is free. (And actually doesn't have most of the problems Apple has with even it's own hardware). So it's valid to ask how people bear using a broken system and even paying for it more than elsewhere. And to repeat myself form an answer given previously: That Apple's software is utterly broken and you won't find anything worse in the market is a fact at this point. Please just follow the other front-page discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29229881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29229881
- VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
  I should have expected "it works for me" to be the go-to reply about why desktop linux is still terrible after all these years. The web browser is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to linux users because now their $favorite_distro is actually a viable desktop platform.
  - still_grokking 5y ago
    It may be "terrible"¹ (even it works for me, and a lot of other just fine) but it's not broken beyond usability at least! And even if it would be as broken as macOS it's free and supports much more hardware—compared to something where you pay even a premium to be bound to only one vendor. So the main question remains. ¹ https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
- josephg 5y ago
  > Even if you think Linux isn't better, it can't be worse! It could be! The truth is complicated. I’ve been using a ryzen desktop running mint for the last year and I just got a M1 pro. I love both of these machines and I still don’t know which I want to be using as a daily driver. (Well, now mint is set up how I like). These macos bugs are real - and they feel like amateur hour junk. As well as the memory leak I’m also running into a bug on my M1 where WindowServer idles at 100% cpu after I’ve been using my computer for awhile. I have no idea what it’s doing or what causes it, but the only way to fix it is a reboot. (Or kill -9 the process, which logs me out and closes all my programs anyway). But Linux’s bugs are different. I haven’t rebooted my Linux machine in ages. But on linux I’m annoyed by other things. Lots of programs have broken smooth scrolling. Keyboard shortcuts for moving the cursor around are inconsistent. I can’t use the Meta key in intellij as a modifier for some reason - so I can’t use my muscle memory shortcuts (and the ctrl+shift+C is awful as a copy shortcut in xterm!). I use a trackpad on my desktop and the sensitivity is way off - so i get misclicks all the time. App distribution is a mess - flatpak, snap, apt, custom dpkgs and manual make / make install? All of the above? I accidentally ended up with 2 copies of discord installed and didn’t know which one was “right”. Linux does the core engineering work right but often falls down in frontend UX. (Its definitely getting better these days though). Apple makes nice UX but their core engineering is remarkably buggy. Apple please - I know you think the market wants a new OS every year with new features. You don’t need a new font every year to compete with cheap plastic x86 laptops. Please slow down and fix your shit.
  - still_grokking 5y ago
    Thanks! That's the second reasonable answer I've got until now. It guess the distinction in "core engineering" and UX is valid and helpful. Adapting my point to it: Even the UX may be inconsistent or even outright broken the resulting system is at least somehow usable. If the core of a system is a tire-fire nothing can work, and it makes no difference any more whether you have the nicest UX or not. One hint regarding the awful shortcuts: You could try to switch CTRL and ALT or META. That's even a common "one click" setting supported usually OOTB by the desktops. Swapping those keys was the one truly right decision regarding usability by Apple, which I welcome even not liking the rest of the macOS UX.
  - 5y ago
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  > That Apple's software is utterly broken and you won't find anything worse in the market is a fact at this point. No, it isn't, and even repeating it once more doesn't make it any more true.
- antifa 5y ago
  > All the mentioned things just work OOTB since many, many years). I've been using Linux for 20 years and I've never had less than 2 of the listed problems on a fresh install on any computer.

still_grokking 5y ago

I didn't ask why you don't use Linux. (Additionally I can't confirm any of the claimed problems; using Linux as a daily driver for more than 20 years. All the mentioned things just work OOTB since many, many years). I asked why people are using an utterly broken OS where even most basic stuff like memory management is defect. (Not even asking how this could possibly pass any QA)… Even if you think Linux isn't better, it can't be worse! But Linux is free. (And actually doesn't have most of the problems Apple has with even it's own hardware). So it's valid to ask how people bear using a broken system and even paying for it more than elsewhere. And to repeat myself form an answer given previously: That Apple's software is utterly broken and you won't find anything worse in the market is a fact at this point. Please just follow the other front-page discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29229881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29229881

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
I should have expected "it works for me" to be the go-to reply about why desktop linux is still terrible after all these years. The web browser is pretty much the best thing that ever happened to linux users because now their $favorite_distro is actually a viable desktop platform.
- still_grokking 5y ago
  It may be "terrible"¹ (even it works for me, and a lot of other just fine) but it's not broken beyond usability at least! And even if it would be as broken as macOS it's free and supports much more hardware—compared to something where you pay even a premium to be bound to only one vendor. So the main question remains. ¹ https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...
josephg 5y ago
> Even if you think Linux isn't better, it can't be worse! It could be! The truth is complicated. I’ve been using a ryzen desktop running mint for the last year and I just got a M1 pro. I love both of these machines and I still don’t know which I want to be using as a daily driver. (Well, now mint is set up how I like). These macos bugs are real - and they feel like amateur hour junk. As well as the memory leak I’m also running into a bug on my M1 where WindowServer idles at 100% cpu after I’ve been using my computer for awhile. I have no idea what it’s doing or what causes it, but the only way to fix it is a reboot. (Or kill -9 the process, which logs me out and closes all my programs anyway). But Linux’s bugs are different. I haven’t rebooted my Linux machine in ages. But on linux I’m annoyed by other things. Lots of programs have broken smooth scrolling. Keyboard shortcuts for moving the cursor around are inconsistent. I can’t use the Meta key in intellij as a modifier for some reason - so I can’t use my muscle memory shortcuts (and the ctrl+shift+C is awful as a copy shortcut in xterm!). I use a trackpad on my desktop and the sensitivity is way off - so i get misclicks all the time. App distribution is a mess - flatpak, snap, apt, custom dpkgs and manual make / make install? All of the above? I accidentally ended up with 2 copies of discord installed and didn’t know which one was “right”. Linux does the core engineering work right but often falls down in frontend UX. (Its definitely getting better these days though). Apple makes nice UX but their core engineering is remarkably buggy. Apple please - I know you think the market wants a new OS every year with new features. You don’t need a new font every year to compete with cheap plastic x86 laptops. Please slow down and fix your shit.
- still_grokking 5y ago
  Thanks! That's the second reasonable answer I've got until now. It guess the distinction in "core engineering" and UX is valid and helpful. Adapting my point to it: Even the UX may be inconsistent or even outright broken the resulting system is at least somehow usable. If the core of a system is a tire-fire nothing can work, and it makes no difference any more whether you have the nicest UX or not. One hint regarding the awful shortcuts: You could try to switch CTRL and ALT or META. That's even a common "one click" setting supported usually OOTB by the desktops. Swapping those keys was the one truly right decision regarding usability by Apple, which I welcome even not liking the rest of the macOS UX.
- 5y ago
Toutouxc 5y ago
> That Apple's software is utterly broken and you won't find anything worse in the market is a fact at this point. No, it isn't, and even repeating it once more doesn't make it any more true.
antifa 5y ago
> All the mentioned things just work OOTB since many, many years). I've been using Linux for 20 years and I've never had less than 2 of the listed problems on a fresh install on any computer.