6 ms·

> You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood. You think that the veil has been taken a

by jokoon 5y ago

> You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood. You think that the veil has been taken away, the veil of happiness, and that now you're seeing truly. > Andrew Solomon

joeberon 5y ago
I saw a piece of research saying that it is true, that depressed people see outcomes more realistically, while non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion where they convince themselves things are better than they are
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  The corollary is that most people confuse realism and rational thinking for pessimism. People that don't know me will initially assume that I'm the negative one on the team. A year later I'm the one dragging the others across the finish line, telling them that it's not that bad, even though my predictions did come true, right on schedule. I was just being accurate, and a successful outcome despite predicted failures along the way is a pretty good result, even if it seemed negative to naively a optimistic person. We foresaw the traps, stumbled, and yet we overcame! What's not positive about that?
  - orzig 5y ago
    As someone who fills a similar role on my team, I've learned to be careful about my tone and to pick my battles (and I'm still far from perfect). Of course, bottling up the frustration of knowing about the oncoming train wreck is its own challenge, which I'd certainly appreciate ideas on.
- mrblampo 5y ago
  I think I saw the same research, but that was more about seeing how bad things are going globally, right? Bet that trend breaks down when it comes to evaluating the quality of your own life.
- qeternity 5y ago
  "Pessimists, on average, are probably smarter than optimists. They're also poorer." Given the complexity of the universe, it pays to be self-deluded...you may experience more failure than the pessimist, but you will most likely benefit from a completely chance encounter that works out positively, when the pessimist will have written off the outcome and lost out on chance.
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    The optimist that experiences more failure has the chance to learn from failure, and eventually succeed either because of that experience or because they have run out of ways to fail. Both optimism and pessimism can be healthy or self-destructive, but on average it's probably easier to have healthy optimism than to have healthy pessimism.
  - xvilka 5y ago
    Not really. Self-delusion is so-called "soldier mindset" while realistic evaluation is the "scout mindset". You can be pessimistic or optimistic in both cases, they are orthogonal. I recommend a book by Julia Galef with the same name [1]. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42041926-the-scout-mindset https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42041926-the-scout-minds...
    - qeternity 5y ago
      Thanks, just bought. Will give it a read.
      - leetrout 5y ago
        It is a very good read or listen on audiobook. Very interesting examples and points being made.
  - Shorel 5y ago
    Some study said we try to avoid losses 2.5 times more than we value gains. If these traits were balanced, then we could be better prepared for the modern world. At the same time, it can be argued this bias would provide some protection against having nothing to eat for far too long in the wilderness, which could prove fatal.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion Depression can often be masked by an overly cheerful go-happy and optimistic personality. This is especially true in societies that frown on "negativity" and require people to look happy and smile often. The character Mr Peanutbutter in Bojack Horseman is a good example.
- civilized 5y ago
  I have seen this too and my theory is that we humans are most motivated and positively engaged when we see an augmented reality of wonderful possibilities "overlaid" on top of the world. We aren't great at distinguishing the possibilities from what's real, so the overlay leads to a mild distortion of perception. But on balance, it's healthier for you to have the overlay.
  - raws 5y ago
    It's like a placebo effect for your take on life, it works but only to a certain extent
- alcover 5y ago
  I think this may be true. If you're good at pattern recognition, you may end up better at realist predicting - but also depressed in the process..
romwell 5y ago
Yeah, let's spread this out-of-context take on depression from someone who is not a mental health professional. Fucking bullshit. Depression lies to you. And, once you live with it long enough, you know it lies to you. You know that the voice that tells you that nothing is worth doing is not speaking truly. You know that the voice that says that there's nothing, absolutely nothing that will ever bring joy to you, and that there is nothing to look forward to, neither tomorrow nor any time in the future - you know it's not speaking truly. You know that the voice that tells you that you are worthless, that you are a burden, that you are nothing but a disappointment and a waste of everything that was given to you, and everyone would have been better off if you removed yourself from that equation because all you do is let everyone else down - you know that that voice is lying to you. Often enough you know it's lying, in particular, about you being not just unworthy of love, but inherently unlovable because people who love you tell you they do, and you know they are speaking the truth. You know that voice is lying, and yet you believe it, you believe it as strongly as anything can be believed, and you wave away everyone else. That's the bitch part of depression: you can't logic it away. You know your brain is sabotaging you, and you just roll along until, for whatever reason, you can't anymore. And yet even after bouncing up from that abyss, the next time you end up there, that voice will sounds as convincing as it ever did.
- Klesio 5y ago
  Is it? While my mother sees life as the gift, I don't. Is there any viewpoint which makes it valid to accept that existence might just not be worth it in every case? Might we as a society not start talking about it in a way that perhaps lifing as long as possible might just not be the right thing for everyone? Does it make my life any better or worth having played even more games? Have been drunk over and.over again? Going to bed the 12801th time? Ha ing to stay fit? Seeing another movie? Yes I get it. The social norms is being alive otherwise our society would not work. But there could be a society were not necessarily lifing for ever might just not be stigmatized and become more normal. I'm at the point we're I have the feeling that I starve for new/different stimulation. Perhaps my way of thinking (ADHS) might just not be that compatible with the avg?
- basisword 5y ago
wott 5y ago
Yes, 'normal' people see the world through a pink veil, built by the 'drugs' that their body produces. Most depression treatments seek to artificially provide those drugs.
- bspammer 5y ago
  What makes one chemical cocktail a "veil", but another chemical cocktail is not? There's no true consciousness that is being deceived by chemicals - you are the chemicals.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    > you are the chemicals Yes, conciseness is an hallucination, that is why they will never be able to discover what it is. People never like to hear they are controlled by chemicals since it makes trash of the notion of free will.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "People never like to hear they are controlled by chemicals since it makes trash of the notion of free will" I do not think so, because the system of chemicals and electromagnetic fields that makes us us, are likely indefinitely complex. "I" am the sum of it. And I can freely decide in that moment now, no matter that the "decision" can also be desribed as countless chemical and physical reactions (and that you can influence that).
- Shorel 5y ago
  It seems then I do not belong to any of these groups. Nothing is pink coloured, but at the same time nothing is truly depressing. Some people say I am a party pooper, but I don't see that either. I just have reasonable expectations. We all die. This ends both all pain and all joy.

by jokoon 5y ago

joeberon 5y ago

I saw a piece of research saying that it is true, that depressed people see outcomes more realistically, while non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion where they convince themselves things are better than they are

jiggawatts 5y ago
The corollary is that most people confuse realism and rational thinking for pessimism. People that don't know me will initially assume that I'm the negative one on the team. A year later I'm the one dragging the others across the finish line, telling them that it's not that bad, even though my predictions did come true, right on schedule. I was just being accurate, and a successful outcome despite predicted failures along the way is a pretty good result, even if it seemed negative to naively a optimistic person. We foresaw the traps, stumbled, and yet we overcame! What's not positive about that?
- orzig 5y ago
  As someone who fills a similar role on my team, I've learned to be careful about my tone and to pick my battles (and I'm still far from perfect). Of course, bottling up the frustration of knowing about the oncoming train wreck is its own challenge, which I'd certainly appreciate ideas on.
mrblampo 5y ago
I think I saw the same research, but that was more about seeing how bad things are going globally, right? Bet that trend breaks down when it comes to evaluating the quality of your own life.
qeternity 5y ago
"Pessimists, on average, are probably smarter than optimists. They're also poorer." Given the complexity of the universe, it pays to be self-deluded...you may experience more failure than the pessimist, but you will most likely benefit from a completely chance encounter that works out positively, when the pessimist will have written off the outcome and lost out on chance.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  The optimist that experiences more failure has the chance to learn from failure, and eventually succeed either because of that experience or because they have run out of ways to fail. Both optimism and pessimism can be healthy or self-destructive, but on average it's probably easier to have healthy optimism than to have healthy pessimism.
- xvilka 5y ago
  Not really. Self-delusion is so-called "soldier mindset" while realistic evaluation is the "scout mindset". You can be pessimistic or optimistic in both cases, they are orthogonal. I recommend a book by Julia Galef with the same name [1]. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42041926-the-scout-mindset https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42041926-the-scout-minds...
  - qeternity 5y ago
    Thanks, just bought. Will give it a read.
    - leetrout 5y ago
      It is a very good read or listen on audiobook. Very interesting examples and points being made.
- Shorel 5y ago
  Some study said we try to avoid losses 2.5 times more than we value gains. If these traits were balanced, then we could be better prepared for the modern world. At the same time, it can be argued this bias would provide some protection against having nothing to eat for far too long in the wilderness, which could prove fatal.
goodpoint 5y ago
> non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion Depression can often be masked by an overly cheerful go-happy and optimistic personality. This is especially true in societies that frown on "negativity" and require people to look happy and smile often. The character Mr Peanutbutter in Bojack Horseman is a good example.
civilized 5y ago
I have seen this too and my theory is that we humans are most motivated and positively engaged when we see an augmented reality of wonderful possibilities "overlaid" on top of the world. We aren't great at distinguishing the possibilities from what's real, so the overlay leads to a mild distortion of perception. But on balance, it's healthier for you to have the overlay.
- raws 5y ago
  It's like a placebo effect for your take on life, it works but only to a certain extent
alcover 5y ago
I think this may be true. If you're good at pattern recognition, you may end up better at realist predicting - but also depressed in the process..

romwell 5y ago

Yeah, let's spread this out-of-context take on depression from someone who is not a mental health professional. Fucking bullshit. Depression lies to you. And, once you live with it long enough, you know it lies to you. You know that the voice that tells you that nothing is worth doing is not speaking truly. You know that the voice that says that there's nothing, absolutely nothing that will ever bring joy to you, and that there is nothing to look forward to, neither tomorrow nor any time in the future - you know it's not speaking truly. You know that the voice that tells you that you are worthless, that you are a burden, that you are nothing but a disappointment and a waste of everything that was given to you, and everyone would have been better off if you removed yourself from that equation because all you do is let everyone else down - you know that that voice is lying to you. Often enough you know it's lying, in particular, about you being not just unworthy of love, but inherently unlovable because people who love you tell you they do, and you know they are speaking the truth. You know that voice is lying, and yet you believe it, you believe it as strongly as anything can be believed, and you wave away everyone else. That's the bitch part of depression: you can't logic it away. You know your brain is sabotaging you, and you just roll along until, for whatever reason, you can't anymore. And yet even after bouncing up from that abyss, the next time you end up there, that voice will sounds as convincing as it ever did.

Klesio 5y ago
Is it? While my mother sees life as the gift, I don't. Is there any viewpoint which makes it valid to accept that existence might just not be worth it in every case? Might we as a society not start talking about it in a way that perhaps lifing as long as possible might just not be the right thing for everyone? Does it make my life any better or worth having played even more games? Have been drunk over and.over again? Going to bed the 12801th time? Ha ing to stay fit? Seeing another movie? Yes I get it. The social norms is being alive otherwise our society would not work. But there could be a society were not necessarily lifing for ever might just not be stigmatized and become more normal. I'm at the point we're I have the feeling that I starve for new/different stimulation. Perhaps my way of thinking (ADHS) might just not be that compatible with the avg?
basisword 5y ago

wott 5y ago

Yes, 'normal' people see the world through a pink veil, built by the 'drugs' that their body produces. Most depression treatments seek to artificially provide those drugs.

bspammer 5y ago
What makes one chemical cocktail a "veil", but another chemical cocktail is not? There's no true consciousness that is being deceived by chemicals - you are the chemicals.
- podgaj 5y ago
  > you are the chemicals Yes, conciseness is an hallucination, that is why they will never be able to discover what it is. People never like to hear they are controlled by chemicals since it makes trash of the notion of free will.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "People never like to hear they are controlled by chemicals since it makes trash of the notion of free will" I do not think so, because the system of chemicals and electromagnetic fields that makes us us, are likely indefinitely complex. "I" am the sum of it. And I can freely decide in that moment now, no matter that the "decision" can also be desribed as countless chemical and physical reactions (and that you can influence that).
Shorel 5y ago
It seems then I do not belong to any of these groups. Nothing is pink coloured, but at the same time nothing is truly depressing. Some people say I am a party pooper, but I don't see that either. I just have reasonable expectations. We all die. This ends both all pain and all joy.