4 ms·

If wonder if Neanderthals discussed an idea akin to the great replacement and if most of them thought/argued that was a conspiracy theory.

inpdx 5y ago
Are your genes inferior? Then evolution will replace you over time. That's how it works.
- vixen99 5y ago
  Yes, calling them inferior or superior is merely another way of describing survival. Why are the genes inferior? Because they don't survive. Why don't they survive? Because ... Sometimes supposedly inferior genes work better in a specific environment as is the case with sickle cell anaemia where mutation resulting in under-performing haemoglobin confers some resistance to malaria.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    >Yes, calling them inferior or superior is merely another way of describing survival. Genes survived either because some populations were aided by geography, as in they weren't challenged by foreign populations or because the individuals were smarter. The modern humans are trying to reverse how nature worked until the recent past but I'm not sure it will work. Competition will always win.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  >Are your genes inferior? What do you mean by inferior genes? Not being adapted to the climate? Being predisposed to some diseases? Having a low IQ? Not enough physical strength?
  - estaseuropano 5y ago
    Less adapted to the environment, which of course can include all of the above.
    - ptsneves 5y ago
      None, all the other hypothesis are second order effects. Weak genes are genes that do not reproduce.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  And yet humans have left natural selection behind on many issues. Not only by warning labels on bleach.
  - est31 5y ago
    Natural selection is still very much alive, in various forms. Economic reasons (can you afford a car with 3 children's seats?), sexual selection, etc.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      It still exists of course. But in that case education is by numbers quite a negative trait for example. Being rich too maybe. Sexual selection is probably not even a significant factor because you mostly always find an idiot to team up with.
      - yobbo 5y ago
        > education is by numbers quite a negative trait So much so that education of women is considered a solution to overpopulation in underdeveloped countries.
- throwaway37263 5y ago
  Palestinian genes must be abysmal.
- yobbo 5y ago
  Concept of inferior/superior is rather naive applied to modern humans. For example, exposing a particular population to a specific challenge will select for particular traits which might cause slower population growth. For example, alcoholism might be the side effect some genetics that enable survival in certain situations that might seem irrelevant until they occur. And modern humans let culture/politics be deciding factors for reproduction. This is causing particular selection pressures that are not understood and can not be evaluated until far in the future.
trhway 5y ago
>if most of them thought/argued that was a conspiracy theory. about 42K years ago the Earth poles flipped and as a result there was a 1K years period of high UV which, especially without change in visible light to trigger pupil response, would have caused a lot of early cataracts and other issues to the large light colored Neanderthals' eyes with them not having any idea what is happening to them while African originated Cro-Magnon with smaller darker eyes used to stronger African Sun would have fared much better in Europe in that period.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  The N. Atlantic Jet Stream also has a huge effect on climate: https://www.popsci.com/environment/jet-stream-moving-north/ https://www.popsci.com/environment/jet-stream-moving-north/
bserge 5y ago
They do to this day!
glogla 5y ago
For those lacking context - Great Replacement[1] is a conspiracy theory about how white people are being replaced by non-white people on purpose as a form or "long-term genocide". It is very popular with alt-right and neo-nazis and in most variants, "the Jews" are the ones behind it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement
- chuckee 5y ago
  > is a conspiracy theory about how You mean a conspiracy theory about why. Though the article does not dispute that demographic changes are taking place, or even that they are the result of deliberate changes of immigration policy, it does go to great lengths to avoid mentioning them. This is not by accident - there is a lively debate on its talk page about including (more) demographic statistics*, to which the editors are highly resistant. For example, there is not a single graph found in the entire article similar to that at the beginning of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France Like refusing to mention JFK is dead on JFK assassination conspiracy articles. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Replacement#Lack_of_demographic_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Replacement#Lack_of... among others
  - glogla 5y ago
    No, it is still nonsense. The whole idea of "our people" being replaced by "those other people" assumes there are "our people" and "those other people" and skin color (or more broadly ethnicity of their ancestors) is the way you recognize which is which. It assumes that culture is unchanging and tied to skin color. It assumes that birth rates are unchaining in time and tied to skin color. It assumes that demographics of birth rate are relevant in less than hundreds of years - during which culture can completely change (see US or Russia or China in 1821, 1921 and 2021). The whole idea is based on stupid, racist thinking.
    - chuckee 5y ago
      It seems to me all it needs to assume is that genetic* ancestry/ethnicity matters - i.e. it has some effect beyond just appearance (if you think caring about appearance is illegitimate). Could you explain why all those other strict assumptions are necessary? Edit: Actually, I've just noticed this question shifts us from "it's not happening" to "it's happening but it doesn't matter". Is that your claim now, and you're conceding that it is happening? Or would "it's not happening but if it did it wouldn't matter" be closer to your opinion? *'Genetic' to separate it from the culture and customs that are also passed down through ancestry.

inpdx 5y ago

Are your genes inferior? Then evolution will replace you over time. That's how it works.

vixen99 5y ago
Yes, calling them inferior or superior is merely another way of describing survival. Why are the genes inferior? Because they don't survive. Why don't they survive? Because ... Sometimes supposedly inferior genes work better in a specific environment as is the case with sickle cell anaemia where mutation resulting in under-performing haemoglobin confers some resistance to malaria.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  >Yes, calling them inferior or superior is merely another way of describing survival. Genes survived either because some populations were aided by geography, as in they weren't challenged by foreign populations or because the individuals were smarter. The modern humans are trying to reverse how nature worked until the recent past but I'm not sure it will work. Competition will always win.
DeathArrow 5y ago
>Are your genes inferior? What do you mean by inferior genes? Not being adapted to the climate? Being predisposed to some diseases? Having a low IQ? Not enough physical strength?
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  Less adapted to the environment, which of course can include all of the above.
  - ptsneves 5y ago
    None, all the other hypothesis are second order effects. Weak genes are genes that do not reproduce.
raxxorrax 5y ago
And yet humans have left natural selection behind on many issues. Not only by warning labels on bleach.
- est31 5y ago
  Natural selection is still very much alive, in various forms. Economic reasons (can you afford a car with 3 children's seats?), sexual selection, etc.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    It still exists of course. But in that case education is by numbers quite a negative trait for example. Being rich too maybe. Sexual selection is probably not even a significant factor because you mostly always find an idiot to team up with.
    - yobbo 5y ago
      > education is by numbers quite a negative trait So much so that education of women is considered a solution to overpopulation in underdeveloped countries.
throwaway37263 5y ago
Palestinian genes must be abysmal.
yobbo 5y ago
Concept of inferior/superior is rather naive applied to modern humans. For example, exposing a particular population to a specific challenge will select for particular traits which might cause slower population growth. For example, alcoholism might be the side effect some genetics that enable survival in certain situations that might seem irrelevant until they occur. And modern humans let culture/politics be deciding factors for reproduction. This is causing particular selection pressures that are not understood and can not be evaluated until far in the future.

trhway 5y ago

>if most of them thought/argued that was a conspiracy theory. about 42K years ago the Earth poles flipped and as a result there was a 1K years period of high UV which, especially without change in visible light to trigger pupil response, would have caused a lot of early cataracts and other issues to the large light colored Neanderthals' eyes with them not having any idea what is happening to them while African originated Cro-Magnon with smaller darker eyes used to stronger African Sun would have fared much better in Europe in that period.

redis_mlc 5y ago
The N. Atlantic Jet Stream also has a huge effect on climate: https://www.popsci.com/environment/jet-stream-moving-north/ https://www.popsci.com/environment/jet-stream-moving-north/

bserge 5y ago

They do to this day!

glogla 5y ago

For those lacking context - Great Replacement[1] is a conspiracy theory about how white people are being replaced by non-white people on purpose as a form or "long-term genocide". It is very popular with alt-right and neo-nazis and in most variants, "the Jews" are the ones behind it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

chuckee 5y ago
> is a conspiracy theory about how You mean a conspiracy theory about why. Though the article does not dispute that demographic changes are taking place, or even that they are the result of deliberate changes of immigration policy, it does go to great lengths to avoid mentioning them. This is not by accident - there is a lively debate on its talk page about including (more) demographic statistics*, to which the editors are highly resistant. For example, there is not a single graph found in the entire article similar to that at the beginning of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France Like refusing to mention JFK is dead on JFK assassination conspiracy articles. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Replacement#Lack_of_demographic_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Replacement#Lack_of... among others
- glogla 5y ago
  No, it is still nonsense. The whole idea of "our people" being replaced by "those other people" assumes there are "our people" and "those other people" and skin color (or more broadly ethnicity of their ancestors) is the way you recognize which is which. It assumes that culture is unchanging and tied to skin color. It assumes that birth rates are unchaining in time and tied to skin color. It assumes that demographics of birth rate are relevant in less than hundreds of years - during which culture can completely change (see US or Russia or China in 1821, 1921 and 2021). The whole idea is based on stupid, racist thinking.
  - chuckee 5y ago
    It seems to me all it needs to assume is that genetic* ancestry/ethnicity matters - i.e. it has some effect beyond just appearance (if you think caring about appearance is illegitimate). Could you explain why all those other strict assumptions are necessary? Edit: Actually, I've just noticed this question shifts us from "it's not happening" to "it's happening but it doesn't matter". Is that your claim now, and you're conceding that it is happening? Or would "it's not happening but if it did it wouldn't matter" be closer to your opinion? *'Genetic' to separate it from the culture and customs that are also passed down through ancestry.