4 ms·

You can remove CO2 extremely cheaply using olivine today, this is a completely fake problem.

Supermancho 5y ago
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750583609000656 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17505... Relevant: Qualitative proposals to control atmospheric CO2 concentrations by spreading crushed olivine rock along the Earth's coastlines, thereby accelerating weathering reactions, are presently attracting considerable attention. This paper provides a critical evaluation of the concept, demonstrating quantitatively whether or not it can contribute significantly to CO2 sequestration. The feasibility of the concept depends on the rate of olivine dissolution, the sequestration capacity of the dominant reaction, and its CO2 footprint. Kinetics calculations show that offsetting 30% of worldwide 1990 CO2 emissions by beach weathering means distributing of 5.0 Gt of olivine per year. For mean seawater temperatures of 15–25 °C, olivine sand (300 μm grain size) takes 700–2100 years to reach the necessary steady state sequestration rate and is therefore of little practical value. To obtain useful, steady state CO2 uptake rates within 15–20 years requires grain sizes <10 μm. However, the preparation and movement of the required material poses major economic, infrastructural and public health questions. We conclude that coastal spreading of olivine is not a viable method of CO2 sequestration on the scale needed. The method certainly cannot replace CCS technologies as a means of controlling atmospheric CO2 concentrations. P.S. Counterpoint: This is from a preofessor in the Netherlands, 2016 He's giving lots of strategies, other than "Olivine all the things": http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t... This is a whitepaper from that professor 2017: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid= https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=... His own summarized blogpost, where he is representing the "Olivine Foundation": https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp... So I'm thinking this is probably a good foundation to start from. How long before someone can convince the US, much less China to olivine their fields? This is not a fake problem. It's a series of problems, but I concede that olivine is a good way to go.
detaro 5y ago
> extremely cheaply What's that in numbers, so we can compare to the number aimed for here?
- bobcostas55 5y ago
  Probably <$15/ton if you do it at scale. Here's a good primer: https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/pc0reb/an_attempted_primer_on_olivine_weathering_as/ https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/pc0reb/an_a...
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    This is from a preofessor in the Netherlands, 2016 He's giving lots of strategies, other than "Olivine all the things": http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-to-capture-co2-and-counter-climate-change.html http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t... This is a whitepaper from that professor 2017: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=73520 https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=... His own summarized blogpost, where he is representing the "Olivine Foundation": https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-expensive-myth/ https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp... So I'm thinking this is probably a good foundation to start from. How long before someone can convince the US, much less China to olivine their fields? This is not a fake problem. It's a series of problems. I have edited a previous post in the thread to concede the technical effectiveness of this solution.
blue1 5y ago
from wikipedia: "All the CO2 that is produced by burning one liter of oil can be sequestered by less than one liter of olivine." Doesn't that require a monstrous amount of olivine to obtain significant effects?
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  We burn monstrous amount of oil, Conservation of mass. A liter of oil produces 3 kilos of CO2, density of rocks is 3-4 kilos per liter.
  - blue1 5y ago
    Imagine. For each tanker truck that goes to a gas pump, you need to carry away a truck of the same size full of rocks. Rather nice image for the idea of "not sustainable".
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      There is no physics-breaking technofix that can make those tankers full of oil sustainable.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750583609000656 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17505... Relevant: Qualitative proposals to control atmospheric CO2 concentrations by spreading crushed olivine rock along the Earth's coastlines, thereby accelerating weathering reactions, are presently attracting considerable attention. This paper provides a critical evaluation of the concept, demonstrating quantitatively whether or not it can contribute significantly to CO2 sequestration. The feasibility of the concept depends on the rate of olivine dissolution, the sequestration capacity of the dominant reaction, and its CO2 footprint. Kinetics calculations show that offsetting 30% of worldwide 1990 CO2 emissions by beach weathering means distributing of 5.0 Gt of olivine per year. For mean seawater temperatures of 15–25 °C, olivine sand (300 μm grain size) takes 700–2100 years to reach the necessary steady state sequestration rate and is therefore of little practical value. To obtain useful, steady state CO2 uptake rates within 15–20 years requires grain sizes <10 μm. However, the preparation and movement of the required material poses major economic, infrastructural and public health questions. We conclude that coastal spreading of olivine is not a viable method of CO2 sequestration on the scale needed. The method certainly cannot replace CCS technologies as a means of controlling atmospheric CO2 concentrations. P.S. Counterpoint: This is from a preofessor in the Netherlands, 2016 He's giving lots of strategies, other than "Olivine all the things": http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t... This is a whitepaper from that professor 2017: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid= https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=... His own summarized blogpost, where he is representing the "Olivine Foundation": https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp... So I'm thinking this is probably a good foundation to start from. How long before someone can convince the US, much less China to olivine their fields? This is not a fake problem. It's a series of problems, but I concede that olivine is a good way to go.

detaro 5y ago

> extremely cheaply What's that in numbers, so we can compare to the number aimed for here?

bobcostas55 5y ago
Probably <$15/ton if you do it at scale. Here's a good primer: https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/pc0reb/an_attempted_primer_on_olivine_weathering_as/ https://old.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/pc0reb/an_a...
- Supermancho 5y ago
  This is from a preofessor in the Netherlands, 2016 He's giving lots of strategies, other than "Olivine all the things": http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-to-capture-co2-and-counter-climate-change.html http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/07/olivine-weathering-t... This is a whitepaper from that professor 2017: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=73520 https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=... His own summarized blogpost, where he is representing the "Olivine Foundation": https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-expensive-myth/ https://smartstones.nl/the-rate-of-olivine-weathering-an-exp... So I'm thinking this is probably a good foundation to start from. How long before someone can convince the US, much less China to olivine their fields? This is not a fake problem. It's a series of problems. I have edited a previous post in the thread to concede the technical effectiveness of this solution.

blue1 5y ago

from wikipedia: "All the CO2 that is produced by burning one liter of oil can be sequestered by less than one liter of olivine." Doesn't that require a monstrous amount of olivine to obtain significant effects?

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
We burn monstrous amount of oil, Conservation of mass. A liter of oil produces 3 kilos of CO2, density of rocks is 3-4 kilos per liter.
- blue1 5y ago
  Imagine. For each tanker truck that goes to a gas pump, you need to carry away a truck of the same size full of rocks. Rather nice image for the idea of "not sustainable".
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    There is no physics-breaking technofix that can make those tankers full of oil sustainable.