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"Lumbard said the managers had toyed with the idea of adopting Google’s 20 percent time, but they concluded it wouldn’t work for NPR. Google has thousands of em

"Lumbard said the managers had toyed with the idea of adopting Google’s 20 percent time, but they concluded it wouldn’t work for NPR. Google has thousands of employees and extraordinarily deep pockets, which mean it can afford to let employees take a day every week for side projects. Plus, Lumbard says, 20-percent time puts the emphasis on individuality, whereas NPR’s approach values teamwork." I often hear the 'Google is bigger, so they can afford it' argument... Bigger means they have MORE PEOPLE. That means it costs more. I can understand a startup saying they can't do it, but an established company with profits? They could, if they wanted to. (Not that it would necessarily make sense, mind you. It depends on the industry.) And the teamwork thing is nonsense, too. Googlers can work on other peoples' 20% projects in their 20% time. So it encourages teamwork as well. (And I'd likely be one of those, as I have few good ideas, but enjoy helping others flesh theirs out.)

svmegatron 15y ago
I think the "extraordinarily deep pockets" has much more to do with Google being able to afford it than the "thousands of employees" part. Although the thousands of employees might be a help in terms of providing coverage for time-sensitive projects.
- kfir 15y ago
  Google 20% time is very much a myth
  - ak217 15y ago
    Google 20% time is a way for engineers to provide justification for resource which they may otherwise be unable to get from their managers, and would have to keep secret (as some managers will object to you doing it in your spare time, too). It's a way to mitigate the productivity drain from managerial micromanagement. Whether or not it works for any given project is subject to many other variables.
  - mdwrigh2 15y ago
    Completely disagree. While I was at Google I was encouraged to find another project that I was interested in contributing to in my 20% time. I ended up working on some internal tools, but there's plenty of options.
  - cpeterso 15y ago
    None of the Google engineers I've met have had 20% projects. They said 20% projects were uncommon in product groups (that have shipping deadlines), but more common in the web teams.
    - mdwrigh2 15y ago
      As I commented above, I was encouraged to find a 20% project while there, and I worked on the Android team. Only a few people on my team had 20% projects, but none of them actually wanted a 20% project as far as I can tell. Anyone that did, had one.
  - mortenjorck 15y ago
    When I interviewed there, one of the interviewers jokingly referred to it as "120% time."
    - pagekalisedown 15y ago
      As a parent, that would send me running for the door. I suspect that's a legal way of discriminating against parents or in favor of single people.
tensafefrogs 15y ago
Speaking as an ex-googler, the 20% time is much more about encouraging side-projects. Time management is completely up to the employee - there is no set day for 20% projects (which leads to the internal joke that it's really 120% time). Some people choose to make time for their side projects, and some don't. The real benefit to 20% time is fostering the environment where employees are encouraged to help other areas of the company or to step outside of their day to day responsibilities. This also promotes teamwork across teams, which is really important when you have so many different products that need to feel cohesive.
- pagekalisedown 15y ago
  Are people at Google really commonly working 80+ hour weeks like I read everywhere? Assuming that's a myth, why do people leave Google? It seems like a dream place to work.
  - mcantor 15y ago
    Why do people leave anywhere? If you can believe there's no such thing as "The One" in dating, for example, you can believe people have good reasons for leaving Google. It's all subjective, after all.
  - agravier 15y ago
    I worked for Google as software engineer. Many colleagues left to build their own business, often a start-up. Contrary to the common idea that Google eats up talent, I believe that Google is a great incubator, in fact. Personally, I left to pursue doctorate studies. The working hours are not crazy for all, but it's all bout getting things done, and people feel responsible of their tasks, so there is also a significant part of WFH.
oacgnol 15y ago
On the topic of company size and affordability, have you ever heard of any smaller companies (read: startups) that have 20% time?
- iand 15y ago
  We're a small company of 40. If someone wants to take time out to learn something or try an idea or work on a project of their own then they should do that. We don't allocate a specific portion of time to do that but we don't measure hours worked anyway. We only measure what people achieve. If they do meet company objectives by only spending half a day a week hacking on "directed" work then that's great. More time for them to invent something really cool. It helps that everyone in the company has equity and feels like a real owner which means timewasting and abuse is quickly pointed out and stopped. I'm the CTO. Feel free to ask me anything about the culture we have.
- nowarninglabel 15y ago
  Kiva is a small non-profit of about 70 employees. Not only do we have 20% time, we have it as a full 2-week iteration where we can work on anything we want. It's awesome.
- hugh3 15y ago
  It's no longer a small company, but I was reading today that SpaceX encourages it, on a "one full week out of every five" basis.
- mcantor 15y ago
  I'd be surprised if it was common... if you think about it, startups are basically "20% projects" that everyone in the company is spending 100% of their time on. :-)
- bartonfink 15y ago
  I've heard that ReadyTalk, in Denver, offers it in the form of "eight weeks on, two weeks off" scheduling. A couple of friends from work have interviewed there and said that it seems to be a great motivator for the engineers. One even rigged up an iPad to their in-house keg that somehow analyzes pours and is working on the "perfect" pour for each beer.
j_baker 15y ago
I can understand a startup saying they can't do it, but an established company with profits? NPR isn't an established company with profits. It's a non-profit funded (in part) by a government always itching for an excuse to withhold all its funding. "NPR is overfunded. They let their developers do whatever the hell they want for 20% of their time!"

svmegatron 15y ago

I think the "extraordinarily deep pockets" has much more to do with Google being able to afford it than the "thousands of employees" part. Although the thousands of employees might be a help in terms of providing coverage for time-sensitive projects.

kfir 15y ago
Google 20% time is very much a myth
- ak217 15y ago
  Google 20% time is a way for engineers to provide justification for resource which they may otherwise be unable to get from their managers, and would have to keep secret (as some managers will object to you doing it in your spare time, too). It's a way to mitigate the productivity drain from managerial micromanagement. Whether or not it works for any given project is subject to many other variables.
- mdwrigh2 15y ago
  Completely disagree. While I was at Google I was encouraged to find another project that I was interested in contributing to in my 20% time. I ended up working on some internal tools, but there's plenty of options.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  None of the Google engineers I've met have had 20% projects. They said 20% projects were uncommon in product groups (that have shipping deadlines), but more common in the web teams.
  - mdwrigh2 15y ago
    As I commented above, I was encouraged to find a 20% project while there, and I worked on the Android team. Only a few people on my team had 20% projects, but none of them actually wanted a 20% project as far as I can tell. Anyone that did, had one.
- mortenjorck 15y ago
  When I interviewed there, one of the interviewers jokingly referred to it as "120% time."
  - pagekalisedown 15y ago
    As a parent, that would send me running for the door. I suspect that's a legal way of discriminating against parents or in favor of single people.

tensafefrogs 15y ago

Speaking as an ex-googler, the 20% time is much more about encouraging side-projects. Time management is completely up to the employee - there is no set day for 20% projects (which leads to the internal joke that it's really 120% time). Some people choose to make time for their side projects, and some don't. The real benefit to 20% time is fostering the environment where employees are encouraged to help other areas of the company or to step outside of their day to day responsibilities. This also promotes teamwork across teams, which is really important when you have so many different products that need to feel cohesive.

pagekalisedown 15y ago
Are people at Google really commonly working 80+ hour weeks like I read everywhere? Assuming that's a myth, why do people leave Google? It seems like a dream place to work.
- mcantor 15y ago
  Why do people leave anywhere? If you can believe there's no such thing as "The One" in dating, for example, you can believe people have good reasons for leaving Google. It's all subjective, after all.
- agravier 15y ago
  I worked for Google as software engineer. Many colleagues left to build their own business, often a start-up. Contrary to the common idea that Google eats up talent, I believe that Google is a great incubator, in fact. Personally, I left to pursue doctorate studies. The working hours are not crazy for all, but it's all bout getting things done, and people feel responsible of their tasks, so there is also a significant part of WFH.

oacgnol 15y ago

On the topic of company size and affordability, have you ever heard of any smaller companies (read: startups) that have 20% time?

iand 15y ago
We're a small company of 40. If someone wants to take time out to learn something or try an idea or work on a project of their own then they should do that. We don't allocate a specific portion of time to do that but we don't measure hours worked anyway. We only measure what people achieve. If they do meet company objectives by only spending half a day a week hacking on "directed" work then that's great. More time for them to invent something really cool. It helps that everyone in the company has equity and feels like a real owner which means timewasting and abuse is quickly pointed out and stopped. I'm the CTO. Feel free to ask me anything about the culture we have.
nowarninglabel 15y ago
Kiva is a small non-profit of about 70 employees. Not only do we have 20% time, we have it as a full 2-week iteration where we can work on anything we want. It's awesome.
hugh3 15y ago
It's no longer a small company, but I was reading today that SpaceX encourages it, on a "one full week out of every five" basis.
mcantor 15y ago
I'd be surprised if it was common... if you think about it, startups are basically "20% projects" that everyone in the company is spending 100% of their time on. :-)
bartonfink 15y ago
I've heard that ReadyTalk, in Denver, offers it in the form of "eight weeks on, two weeks off" scheduling. A couple of friends from work have interviewed there and said that it seems to be a great motivator for the engineers. One even rigged up an iPad to their in-house keg that somehow analyzes pours and is working on the "perfect" pour for each beer.

j_baker 15y ago

I can understand a startup saying they can't do it, but an established company with profits? NPR isn't an established company with profits. It's a non-profit funded (in part) by a government always itching for an excuse to withhold all its funding. "NPR is overfunded. They let their developers do whatever the hell they want for 20% of their time!"