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Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and

Just think about all the development and financial data and ideas that google has a direct untraceable back door into through running gmail, android phones, and chrome browser alone... I have resorted to using an old school notepad for my development ideas pretty much. A software company I used to work for got shuttered just 3 months after a big software company paid the startup a visit to observe operations back in 98, I've always been wary of corporate espionage since.

rapnie 5y ago
It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I don't know and IANAL, but I'd prefer some separation from such an ad-tech giant with my corporate intelligence.
- mancerayder 5y ago
  Infosec teams that are competent tend to push back on that. If there's no infosec and it's just infra and developers and CTO's signing contracts with vendors, even Google, you have an issue.
- ReaLNero 5y ago
  (Not a Google engineer) Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited. The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher up requests data access, gets it, and the person auditing looks the other way.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    The last case of ad bidding proves that while not everyone at Google knows whats going on, they are abusing the data they are sitting on.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - extropy 5y ago
      Which case is that?
  - underwater 5y ago
    That's assuming that there isn't another back channel to access that data. And even if they don't access file or email content, metadata like access data like Play Store performance, Google searches for competing products, and Google Analytics data, might seem like fair game.
  - dannyw 5y ago
    How does Google respond to secret FISA orders which by law cannot be audited or known by anyone but the direct receiver and one pre-screened attorney?
    - judge2020 5y ago
      Most businesses on Google Workspace don’t see the US government as an adversary. If they do, they encrypt things or don’t use Workspace.
      - extropy 5y ago
        This. If US government on your things to worry about list, you host in Russia Cloud or China Cloud. Or roll your own data center in some non US allied country.
        VRay 5y ago
pjmlp 5y ago
You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate, basically running their business on Google's infrastructure.
- squarefoot 5y ago
  I would advocate Chromebooks and Chromeboxes only because once I remove the bootloader protection, flash the coreboot firmware and install whichever OS I want, from my point of view they're wonderful little machines. But from normal users perspective, once they discover that the hardware is locked to prevent the install of anything but ChromeOS, they are garbage, and probably it is what they become once the user has enough of the Google ecosystem then ditch them well before their physical obsolescence. Locking down hardware to prevent installation of other operating systems should become illegal.
  - j-bos 5y ago
    Do you recommend any guides for removing the bootloader protection?
    - squarefoot 5y ago
      To my knowledge, this one is the best detailed and covers most devices. https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate Got a source for that?
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Have fun, https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Chromebooks&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
da39a3ee 5y ago
That's not what the comment you're replying to is talking about. They may not be trusted to control a marketplace, doesn't mean we have to entertain silly conspiracy theories about them reading your google docs! As another comment says below, there is no way that can be happening because google engineers would not keep it secret! Regarding your paper notepad, I keep paper by my laptop also, it's a nice medium. But seriously, to think it's protecting you against IP espionage is (a) tinfoil hat territory and (b) almost certainly a massive overestimation of your IP. You don't want to go through life miscalibrated in this regard; apart from anything else it will confuse those for whom you are a role model.

rapnie 5y ago

It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I don't know and IANAL, but I'd prefer some separation from such an ad-tech giant with my corporate intelligence.

mancerayder 5y ago
Infosec teams that are competent tend to push back on that. If there's no infosec and it's just infra and developers and CTO's signing contracts with vendors, even Google, you have an issue.
ReaLNero 5y ago
(Not a Google engineer) Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited. The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher up requests data access, gets it, and the person auditing looks the other way.
- capableweb 5y ago
  The last case of ad bidding proves that while not everyone at Google knows whats going on, they are abusing the data they are sitting on.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - extropy 5y ago
    Which case is that?
- underwater 5y ago
  That's assuming that there isn't another back channel to access that data. And even if they don't access file or email content, metadata like access data like Play Store performance, Google searches for competing products, and Google Analytics data, might seem like fair game.
- dannyw 5y ago
  How does Google respond to secret FISA orders which by law cannot be audited or known by anyone but the direct receiver and one pre-screened attorney?
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Most businesses on Google Workspace don’t see the US government as an adversary. If they do, they encrypt things or don’t use Workspace.
    - extropy 5y ago
      This. If US government on your things to worry about list, you host in Russia Cloud or China Cloud. Or roll your own data center in some non US allied country.
      - VRay 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate, basically running their business on Google's infrastructure.

squarefoot 5y ago
I would advocate Chromebooks and Chromeboxes only because once I remove the bootloader protection, flash the coreboot firmware and install whichever OS I want, from my point of view they're wonderful little machines. But from normal users perspective, once they discover that the hardware is locked to prevent the install of anything but ChromeOS, they are garbage, and probably it is what they become once the user has enough of the Google ecosystem then ditch them well before their physical obsolescence. Locking down hardware to prevent installation of other operating systems should become illegal.
- j-bos 5y ago
  Do you recommend any guides for removing the bootloader protection?
  - squarefoot 5y ago
    To my knowledge, this one is the best detailed and covers most devices. https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate Got a source for that?
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Have fun, https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=Chromebooks&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

da39a3ee 5y ago

That's not what the comment you're replying to is talking about. They may not be trusted to control a marketplace, doesn't mean we have to entertain silly conspiracy theories about them reading your google docs! As another comment says below, there is no way that can be happening because google engineers would not keep it secret! Regarding your paper notepad, I keep paper by my laptop also, it's a nice medium. But seriously, to think it's protecting you against IP espionage is (a) tinfoil hat territory and (b) almost certainly a massive overestimation of your IP. You don't want to go through life miscalibrated in this regard; apart from anything else it will confuse those for whom you are a role model.