8 ms·

Id Software Goes After Doomscroll

69 points by chha 5y ago

spywaregorilla 5y ago
> Doomscroll may never rock. That could be a good thing; it could be too soon for a band that reminds us of our concentrated anxieties, the addictiveness of social media negativity. God forbid art tackles unhappy things
- oystersauce 5y ago
  I thought that little blurb in the article was a little out of left field as well, like the author felt a sudden urge to try and communicate that social media addiction is no joking matter.
rockbruno 5y ago
> JB, the guy behind the Maryland Doom Fest, says he didn’t pursue the trademark after Id’s initial opposition. It would have been too expensive, he guesses. Why do we still claim the world runs a democracy when the judicial system is clearly biased towards and abused by those who has the most time and resources to burn? The most mindblowing example I can think is when megacorps file bullshit claims that they know they would never win because they know the opposite party won't have the money to contest it.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  and all the lawyering talent is squatted by the wealthiest corporations, leaving very little competent representation for the rest of us
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    I think it's fair to say the same thing about technical talent today, so we should watch where we throw virtual stones...
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      I am happy to throw stones. I resent FANG for hoovering up the best talent just to keep them on payroll, lest they actually have to compete or acquire competition for many billions of dollars later, much cheaper to keep them busy on internal tooling.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  I think the bigger issues is that people like the legal system is inherently expensive, when often it isn’t. Although it frequently time consuming. > It would have been too expensive, he guesses. This attitude really bothers me. Why didn’t he find out how much it cost? It probably costs nothing to writing your own opposition and send it back to the trademark office. You’re only trying to convince an administrator, not a judge, and worst that can happen is you fail. But all you’ve lost is some time. Most government processes are designed so it’s possible for a lay person to figure it out. The real trick lawyers have managed, is convincing us all that you can’t engage with government or the justice system without an overpaid lawyer.
  - clippablematt 5y ago
    Time consuming == expensive. If you engage with the case and the legal system you aren’t at work, you aren’t developing your product/company, you aren’t spending time with your family. You spend you time doing something other than the thing you want to be doing, you sacrifice all the possible opportunities you could have had doing other things. If you pay a lawyer or if you do it yourself it is expensive. Even if you only spend half an hour writing an email, that’s time you’ve lost, and that time is more valuable to you on a small scale than the cost for the legal department of a massive company that can have someone writing emails all day and eating up all your time.
    - avianlyric 5y ago
      Conflict is an inherent part of society. Either you engage with it, and use the tools available to you to defend the things you care about. Or you shut the fuck up. Most countries legal systems have very strong skews towards individuals, to make it easy(ish) for individuals to take on much larger entities. Most of the time these skews are so extreme that merely demonstrating that you understand how to send a correctly written letter is enough for most companies to back off. Large corporates prey entirely on the fact that people grossly underestimate how many rights they have, and make zero effort to enforce them. If spending 30mins to write an email is too much effort. Then clearly the issue isn’t significant to you. In which shut up and go away. If you can’t be bothered to write a 30 min email, then why the hell should anyone else give a shit?
- programmarchy 5y ago
  Recently going through something very similar. I purchased a domain name for an app I was about to release, but it happened to conflict with a random German pharmaceutical drug for pets. There’s no industry overlap so I should be entitled to a trademark. But I got roped into a domain dispute case with WIPO for my .app domain. My lawyer said I could probably win the WIPO case, but the company would simply re-open the case in some other jurisdiction. Since my app is pre-revenue, I can’t really fight it. My lawyer recommended even though I was in the right, I should give up the fight because it could cost 100s of thousands of dollars with no guarantee of success. The lesson I learned is that before purchasing a domain name, secure a trademark from the USPTO. It’s not cheap though. Can run $300 to $1000, which is nothing for a big corporation, but a big barrier for individual creators trying to get something off the ground. This experience made me lose a lot of faith in “the law”. Rather than an level playing field among equals, it seems more like a protective moat for the rich and powerful.
  - redisman 5y ago
    That sucks. In my case I got a low 5 figure buy out offer which I figured I better take to not find what’s the next step. It was a useless blog which was using a part of a large entertainment company’s name
- varelse 5y ago
  Because that's the way a lot of people want it just in case they become less embarrassed millionaires some day. You can never be sure! Silicon Valley is a nexus for this kind of thinking but at least there's a decent chance of doing that if you're not stupid about it and just spend a decade or two here jumping from one failed startup to another until one sticks. But be very careful, the virtue police here claim they don't like job hoppers (as they themselves jump from one position to another). As long as you're an at-will employee you owe nothing more than at-will loyalty. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise unless they pony up the cash upfront.
- Vrondi 5y ago
  I've never seen anyone claim that the world is a democracy.
flohofwoe 5y ago
Is there even anybody left at id who was involved in Doom's development to justify the "Doom's Creator" in the title? I had always assumed that id Software under ZeniMax is a completely different company, different people, different tech stack, different ethics. But as an outsider of course I don't know how much of this is true. edit: Bethesda => ZeniMax
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- psyc 5y ago
  I’m puzzled as to who is acting when id Software, under Zenimax Media, under Microsoft, takes legal action.
  - Bobylonian 5y ago
    Maybe it is all about Elder Scrolls...
    - redisman 5y ago
      Right didn’t they sue Mojang for the card game “Scrolls”
- tpmx 5y ago
  I also got curious. These two people still seem to be there: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kevin_Cloud https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kevin_Cloud https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Donna_Jackson https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Donna_Jackson
- messe 5y ago
  > Is there even anybody left at id who was involved in Doom's development to justify the "Doom's Creator" in the title? I assumed it was referring to John Carmack before reading the article.
  - varelse 5y ago
Swenrekcah 5y ago
Can’t there be a way for legal departments to file a notice saying: “We’re aware of this entity that is not remotely relevant to our trademark but happens to contain some of the same letters and we have decided it doesn’t infringe, being so completely unrelated. We’re still defending our trademark but this isn’t violating it. Thanks and bye.”
- em-bee 5y ago
  that's what the different trademark categories are for
- srtjstjsj 5y ago
  The article discussed this. id negotiates to allow non infringing incidents to exist, but opposes their ability to trademark the similar name.
jyriand 5y ago
Would it make a difference if it were renamed "doomscroll" with undercase D. Just wondering where the DOOM begins and doom ends. Edit: typo
jacknews 5y ago
So you can't say 'doom' now? Or 'bomb', obviously.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  and the DOD shall never say command and conquer ever again, how fortunate for us
- rlopezcc 5y ago
  What? You can't trademark it. There's a British band called Doom, id/Bethesda/whatever doesn't care.
  - srtjstjsj 5y ago
    If you don't trademark it, it's not your name, because you have no right to disambiguate form anyone using the same name.
m4r35n357 5y ago
Dick move alert!
Kenji 5y ago
When they said "Doom's Creator" I thought of John Carmack. But of course he wouldn't go around suing people. It's the company, without him, of course.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fortyseven 5y ago
Being entirely based in the music world, how in hell can they bitch about this?
- aorth 5y ago
  No to mention that "doom" is an English word and it has to do with people scrolling never-ending pages of bad news on social media! It has nothing to do with the video game...
jazzyjackson 5y ago
about as asinine as owning the trademark to “meta”
Farbklex 5y ago
Don't let Bethesda (now owned by Microsoft) know or they get sued for using "Scroll" in the name as well. Reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/03/16/bethesda-and-mojang-settle-scrolls-lawsuit/?sh=267f45ff7e35 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/03/16/bethesda-a... Funny that Microsoft now owns both parties of the lawsuit.
- peanut_worm 5y ago
  Bethesda owns Id
  - LocalH 5y ago
    Yes, and Microsoft owns Bethesda and Mojang, the parties in the lawsuit OP mentioned
beebeepka 5y ago
Guys. Today's I'd Software is owned by Zenimax (bunch of lawyers) which is now owned by Microsoft. How the best shooter studio has fallen
beebeepka 5y ago
"mom", "love", and "screen door" are registered trademarks of momcorp
Fnoord 5y ago
Naming your game after a common English word (the word 'doom')? "Doctor, it hurts when I do that. Then don't do that." A metal band and a game are both entertainment, but different forms. Furthermore, the name Doomscroll isn't the same as Doom, as it consists of two English words. On top of that, fans of Doomscroll are unlikely to get confused with Doom the game. So, ID Software is in the wrong here... but they got deep pockets.
arpa 5y ago
Woah, that's insane. I would put down :tenbux: to help Doomscroll's creator fight this on their gofundme or whatever. Because what the actual hell?!
wowtip 5y ago
Who owns iD software nowadays? Reading the title I first thought John Carmack had started hunting down metal bands...
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Microsoft, through ZeniMax.
brundolf 5y ago
*Doom's intellectual property owner
alexyz12 5y ago
Its really not a good name for a band.. Why do you want your music to remind people of scrolling social media?
cafard 5y ago
Maybe the Freud heirs can sue Id Software?

69 points by chha 5y ago

> Doomscroll may never rock. That could be a good thing; it could be too soon for a band that reminds us of our concentrated anxieties, the addictiveness of social media negativity. God forbid art tackles unhappy things

oystersauce 5y ago
I thought that little blurb in the article was a little out of left field as well, like the author felt a sudden urge to try and communicate that social media addiction is no joking matter.

rockbruno 5y ago

> JB, the guy behind the Maryland Doom Fest, says he didn’t pursue the trademark after Id’s initial opposition. It would have been too expensive, he guesses. Why do we still claim the world runs a democracy when the judicial system is clearly biased towards and abused by those who has the most time and resources to burn? The most mindblowing example I can think is when megacorps file bullshit claims that they know they would never win because they know the opposite party won't have the money to contest it.

jazzyjackson 5y ago
and all the lawyering talent is squatted by the wealthiest corporations, leaving very little competent representation for the rest of us
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  I think it's fair to say the same thing about technical talent today, so we should watch where we throw virtual stones...
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    I am happy to throw stones. I resent FANG for hoovering up the best talent just to keep them on payroll, lest they actually have to compete or acquire competition for many billions of dollars later, much cheaper to keep them busy on internal tooling.
avianlyric 5y ago
I think the bigger issues is that people like the legal system is inherently expensive, when often it isn’t. Although it frequently time consuming. > It would have been too expensive, he guesses. This attitude really bothers me. Why didn’t he find out how much it cost? It probably costs nothing to writing your own opposition and send it back to the trademark office. You’re only trying to convince an administrator, not a judge, and worst that can happen is you fail. But all you’ve lost is some time. Most government processes are designed so it’s possible for a lay person to figure it out. The real trick lawyers have managed, is convincing us all that you can’t engage with government or the justice system without an overpaid lawyer.
- clippablematt 5y ago
  Time consuming == expensive. If you engage with the case and the legal system you aren’t at work, you aren’t developing your product/company, you aren’t spending time with your family. You spend you time doing something other than the thing you want to be doing, you sacrifice all the possible opportunities you could have had doing other things. If you pay a lawyer or if you do it yourself it is expensive. Even if you only spend half an hour writing an email, that’s time you’ve lost, and that time is more valuable to you on a small scale than the cost for the legal department of a massive company that can have someone writing emails all day and eating up all your time.
  - avianlyric 5y ago
    Conflict is an inherent part of society. Either you engage with it, and use the tools available to you to defend the things you care about. Or you shut the fuck up. Most countries legal systems have very strong skews towards individuals, to make it easy(ish) for individuals to take on much larger entities. Most of the time these skews are so extreme that merely demonstrating that you understand how to send a correctly written letter is enough for most companies to back off. Large corporates prey entirely on the fact that people grossly underestimate how many rights they have, and make zero effort to enforce them. If spending 30mins to write an email is too much effort. Then clearly the issue isn’t significant to you. In which shut up and go away. If you can’t be bothered to write a 30 min email, then why the hell should anyone else give a shit?
programmarchy 5y ago
Recently going through something very similar. I purchased a domain name for an app I was about to release, but it happened to conflict with a random German pharmaceutical drug for pets. There’s no industry overlap so I should be entitled to a trademark. But I got roped into a domain dispute case with WIPO for my .app domain. My lawyer said I could probably win the WIPO case, but the company would simply re-open the case in some other jurisdiction. Since my app is pre-revenue, I can’t really fight it. My lawyer recommended even though I was in the right, I should give up the fight because it could cost 100s of thousands of dollars with no guarantee of success. The lesson I learned is that before purchasing a domain name, secure a trademark from the USPTO. It’s not cheap though. Can run $300 to $1000, which is nothing for a big corporation, but a big barrier for individual creators trying to get something off the ground. This experience made me lose a lot of faith in “the law”. Rather than an level playing field among equals, it seems more like a protective moat for the rich and powerful.
- redisman 5y ago
  That sucks. In my case I got a low 5 figure buy out offer which I figured I better take to not find what’s the next step. It was a useless blog which was using a part of a large entertainment company’s name
varelse 5y ago
Because that's the way a lot of people want it just in case they become less embarrassed millionaires some day. You can never be sure! Silicon Valley is a nexus for this kind of thinking but at least there's a decent chance of doing that if you're not stupid about it and just spend a decade or two here jumping from one failed startup to another until one sticks. But be very careful, the virtue police here claim they don't like job hoppers (as they themselves jump from one position to another). As long as you're an at-will employee you owe nothing more than at-will loyalty. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise unless they pony up the cash upfront.
Vrondi 5y ago
I've never seen anyone claim that the world is a democracy.

flohofwoe 5y ago

Is there even anybody left at id who was involved in Doom's development to justify the "Doom's Creator" in the title? I had always assumed that id Software under ZeniMax is a completely different company, different people, different tech stack, different ethics. But as an outsider of course I don't know how much of this is true. edit: Bethesda => ZeniMax

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
psyc 5y ago
I’m puzzled as to who is acting when id Software, under Zenimax Media, under Microsoft, takes legal action.
- Bobylonian 5y ago
  Maybe it is all about Elder Scrolls...
  - redisman 5y ago
    Right didn’t they sue Mojang for the card game “Scrolls”
tpmx 5y ago
I also got curious. These two people still seem to be there: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kevin_Cloud https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Kevin_Cloud https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Donna_Jackson https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Donna_Jackson
messe 5y ago
> Is there even anybody left at id who was involved in Doom's development to justify the "Doom's Creator" in the title? I assumed it was referring to John Carmack before reading the article.
- varelse 5y ago

Swenrekcah 5y ago

Can’t there be a way for legal departments to file a notice saying: “We’re aware of this entity that is not remotely relevant to our trademark but happens to contain some of the same letters and we have decided it doesn’t infringe, being so completely unrelated. We’re still defending our trademark but this isn’t violating it. Thanks and bye.”

em-bee 5y ago
that's what the different trademark categories are for
srtjstjsj 5y ago
The article discussed this. id negotiates to allow non infringing incidents to exist, but opposes their ability to trademark the similar name.

jyriand 5y ago

Would it make a difference if it were renamed "doomscroll" with undercase D. Just wondering where the DOOM begins and doom ends. Edit: typo

jacknews 5y ago

So you can't say 'doom' now? Or 'bomb', obviously.

agumonkey 5y ago
and the DOD shall never say command and conquer ever again, how fortunate for us
rlopezcc 5y ago
What? You can't trademark it. There's a British band called Doom, id/Bethesda/whatever doesn't care.
- srtjstjsj 5y ago
  If you don't trademark it, it's not your name, because you have no right to disambiguate form anyone using the same name.

m4r35n357 5y ago

Dick move alert!

Kenji 5y ago

When they said "Doom's Creator" I thought of John Carmack. But of course he wouldn't go around suing people. It's the company, without him, of course.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

fortyseven 5y ago

Being entirely based in the music world, how in hell can they bitch about this?

aorth 5y ago
No to mention that "doom" is an English word and it has to do with people scrolling never-ending pages of bad news on social media! It has nothing to do with the video game...

jazzyjackson 5y ago

about as asinine as owning the trademark to “meta”

Farbklex 5y ago

Don't let Bethesda (now owned by Microsoft) know or they get sued for using "Scroll" in the name as well. Reference: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/03/16/bethesda-and-mojang-settle-scrolls-lawsuit/?sh=267f45ff7e35 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/03/16/bethesda-a... Funny that Microsoft now owns both parties of the lawsuit.

peanut_worm 5y ago
Bethesda owns Id
- LocalH 5y ago
  Yes, and Microsoft owns Bethesda and Mojang, the parties in the lawsuit OP mentioned

beebeepka 5y ago

Guys. Today's I'd Software is owned by Zenimax (bunch of lawyers) which is now owned by Microsoft. How the best shooter studio has fallen

beebeepka 5y ago

"mom", "love", and "screen door" are registered trademarks of momcorp

Fnoord 5y ago

Naming your game after a common English word (the word 'doom')? "Doctor, it hurts when I do that. Then don't do that." A metal band and a game are both entertainment, but different forms. Furthermore, the name Doomscroll isn't the same as Doom, as it consists of two English words. On top of that, fans of Doomscroll are unlikely to get confused with Doom the game. So, ID Software is in the wrong here... but they got deep pockets.

arpa 5y ago

Woah, that's insane. I would put down :tenbux: to help Doomscroll's creator fight this on their gofundme or whatever. Because what the actual hell?!

wowtip 5y ago

Who owns iD software nowadays? Reading the title I first thought John Carmack had started hunting down metal bands...

seba_dos1 5y ago
Microsoft, through ZeniMax.

brundolf 5y ago

*Doom's intellectual property owner

alexyz12 5y ago

Its really not a good name for a band.. Why do you want your music to remind people of scrolling social media?

cafard 5y ago

Maybe the Freud heirs can sue Id Software?