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Depends on your country, really. Throttle ebikes are legal in the USA so long as they don't go faster than 20MPH on throttle alone. And really speed is what ma

Depends on your country, really. Throttle ebikes are legal in the USA so long as they don't go faster than 20MPH on throttle alone. And really speed is what matters here. Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all? There's no safety concern.

mikepurvis 5y ago
At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  Yeah, there's an argument to be made somewhere here about banning obese people from running. :P
- jacquesm 5y ago
  The weight of the bike + rider is still well below what some riders weigh all by themselves. Compared to a scooter it's a featherweight, compared to a regular e-bike it's about a 5 Kg premium.
- iso1210 5y ago
  > Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h. We do in the UK - it's perfectly normal for cars (including police cars) to mount and drive along the pavement, before being left there
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Same in China. Doesn’t matter if they are allowed to park there or not.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    Same in practically every European country I’ve been to. And it’s not like it doesn’t happen in the US either. Most residential streets don’t have sidewalks in the first place so technically parking in front of a house without a curb or lane is the exact equivalent. Just because it isn’t explicitly marked as a sidewalk doesn’t mean it isn’t treated as one when it’s the only option.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    There has been some talk of changing the law on that, although I can’t see how that would work in many streets.
- iambateman 5y ago
  There’s an order of magnitude between a 2 ton vehicle and a 250 pound vehicle+rider. Cars also have huge blind spots and if a bike rider gets in an accident, it’s usually very painful for them too, so their incentives to avoid accidents are quite high.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    Okay, then take away the blind spots and some of the mass and ask the same question— why don't we allow motorcycles to drive on the sidewalk or multiuse paths assuming they pinky swear to always go really slowly?
    - HPsquared 5y ago
      Seriously? 1. Motorbikes weigh at least 10 times as much as bicycles, and can't be picked up any moved around by the rider 2. Motorbikes are much wider than bicycles 3. Motorbikes can accelerate much faster than bicycles 4. Motorbikes emit noise and exhaust fumes 5. Motorbikes have a much larger turning radius than bicycles 6. Motorbikes are capable of keeping up with cars and therefore have no need to be on bike lanes. Probably a lot more reasons as well.
      - mikepurvis 5y ago
        The starting point for this discussion was: "Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all?" And my point is that there are a lot of devices out there that are legally an ebike, and therefore have access to bike infrastructure provided the observe a 20MPH speed limit, but that are in reality much heavier and less maneuverable than what most people consider a "bicycle". Obviously this has been lost on the downvoters, but just as some examples, if I were out with my kids cycling on a multi-use path, I would not be thrilled to have "bikes" like these passing me at 20MPH: https://rugged.bike/ https://rugged.bike/ https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500 https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500
- aidenn0 5y ago
  I have a fairly large cargo e-bike; it weighs 75lbs. I weigh 200lbs. I'm sure you'd feel a difference being hit by me that rather than me on my 18lb road bike, but I go faster on my road bike except when climbing.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    I'd love an Electric Hot-Tub Bakfiets, but the batteries don't last long, they aren't very maneuverable, and they spill a lot around corners. Those things are amazing. Here are a few photos I took of a dude in Amsterdam riding a bakfiets carrying an outdoor urinal. https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW
- Animats 5y ago
  Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass. Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    I completely agree— electric fat bikes are totally a fun time, but I think they really land in an odd place when it comes to where they belong on the road. They're likely too bulky and heavy to be in the bike lane, but shouldn't really be in the car lane given their speed limit. And the speed limit shouldn't really be dropped without imposing licensing, and once you're there, there's no point— it's just an electric motorcycle.

mikepurvis 5y ago

At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Yeah, there's an argument to be made somewhere here about banning obese people from running. :P
jacquesm 5y ago
The weight of the bike + rider is still well below what some riders weigh all by themselves. Compared to a scooter it's a featherweight, compared to a regular e-bike it's about a 5 Kg premium.
iso1210 5y ago
> Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h. We do in the UK - it's perfectly normal for cars (including police cars) to mount and drive along the pavement, before being left there
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Same in China. Doesn’t matter if they are allowed to park there or not.
- mynameisvlad 5y ago
  Same in practically every European country I’ve been to. And it’s not like it doesn’t happen in the US either. Most residential streets don’t have sidewalks in the first place so technically parking in front of a house without a curb or lane is the exact equivalent. Just because it isn’t explicitly marked as a sidewalk doesn’t mean it isn’t treated as one when it’s the only option.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  There has been some talk of changing the law on that, although I can’t see how that would work in many streets.
iambateman 5y ago
There’s an order of magnitude between a 2 ton vehicle and a 250 pound vehicle+rider. Cars also have huge blind spots and if a bike rider gets in an accident, it’s usually very painful for them too, so their incentives to avoid accidents are quite high.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  Okay, then take away the blind spots and some of the mass and ask the same question— why don't we allow motorcycles to drive on the sidewalk or multiuse paths assuming they pinky swear to always go really slowly?
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    Seriously? 1. Motorbikes weigh at least 10 times as much as bicycles, and can't be picked up any moved around by the rider 2. Motorbikes are much wider than bicycles 3. Motorbikes can accelerate much faster than bicycles 4. Motorbikes emit noise and exhaust fumes 5. Motorbikes have a much larger turning radius than bicycles 6. Motorbikes are capable of keeping up with cars and therefore have no need to be on bike lanes. Probably a lot more reasons as well.
    - mikepurvis 5y ago
      The starting point for this discussion was: "Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all?" And my point is that there are a lot of devices out there that are legally an ebike, and therefore have access to bike infrastructure provided the observe a 20MPH speed limit, but that are in reality much heavier and less maneuverable than what most people consider a "bicycle". Obviously this has been lost on the downvoters, but just as some examples, if I were out with my kids cycling on a multi-use path, I would not be thrilled to have "bikes" like these passing me at 20MPH: https://rugged.bike/ https://rugged.bike/ https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500 https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500
aidenn0 5y ago
I have a fairly large cargo e-bike; it weighs 75lbs. I weigh 200lbs. I'm sure you'd feel a difference being hit by me that rather than me on my 18lb road bike, but I go faster on my road bike except when climbing.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  I'd love an Electric Hot-Tub Bakfiets, but the batteries don't last long, they aren't very maneuverable, and they spill a lot around corners. Those things are amazing. Here are a few photos I took of a dude in Amsterdam riding a bakfiets carrying an outdoor urinal. https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW
Animats 5y ago
Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass. Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  I completely agree— electric fat bikes are totally a fun time, but I think they really land in an odd place when it comes to where they belong on the road. They're likely too bulky and heavy to be in the bike lane, but shouldn't really be in the car lane given their speed limit. And the speed limit shouldn't really be dropped without imposing licensing, and once you're there, there's no point— it's just an electric motorcycle.