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My wife just bought an ebike (from RadPower) that has both pedal assist and a throttle that doesn't require pedaling. You can also adjust the amount of pedal as

My wife just bought an ebike (from RadPower) that has both pedal assist and a throttle that doesn't require pedaling. You can also adjust the amount of pedal assist so you can "feather pedal". Who's going to confiscate this bike????

deleted 5y ago
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oppositelock 5y ago
It depends where you are. Most EU countries forbid throttles, but they're ok in the US as long as your under 1000W motor output (Federal laws), but local laws can make this stricter. I've built several e-bikes, for fun, and like the author of this article, I've got a long range one, but only with about half of his battery capacity, which is enough for me.
hendersoon 5y ago
Depends on your country, really. Throttle ebikes are legal in the USA so long as they don't go faster than 20MPH on throttle alone. And really speed is what matters here. Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all? There's no safety concern.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    Yeah, there's an argument to be made somewhere here about banning obese people from running. :P
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The weight of the bike + rider is still well below what some riders weigh all by themselves. Compared to a scooter it's a featherweight, compared to a regular e-bike it's about a 5 Kg premium.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    > Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h. We do in the UK - it's perfectly normal for cars (including police cars) to mount and drive along the pavement, before being left there
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Same in China. Doesn’t matter if they are allowed to park there or not.
    - mynameisvlad 5y ago
      Same in practically every European country I’ve been to. And it’s not like it doesn’t happen in the US either. Most residential streets don’t have sidewalks in the first place so technically parking in front of a house without a curb or lane is the exact equivalent. Just because it isn’t explicitly marked as a sidewalk doesn’t mean it isn’t treated as one when it’s the only option.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      There has been some talk of changing the law on that, although I can’t see how that would work in many streets.
  - iambateman 5y ago
    There’s an order of magnitude between a 2 ton vehicle and a 250 pound vehicle+rider. Cars also have huge blind spots and if a bike rider gets in an accident, it’s usually very painful for them too, so their incentives to avoid accidents are quite high.
    - mikepurvis 5y ago
      Okay, then take away the blind spots and some of the mass and ask the same question— why don't we allow motorcycles to drive on the sidewalk or multiuse paths assuming they pinky swear to always go really slowly?
      - HPsquared 5y ago
        Seriously? 1. Motorbikes weigh at least 10 times as much as bicycles, and can't be picked up any moved around by the rider 2. Motorbikes are much wider than bicycles 3. Motorbikes can accelerate much faster than bicycles 4. Motorbikes emit noise and exhaust fumes 5. Motorbikes have a much larger turning radius than bicycles 6. Motorbikes are capable of keeping up with cars and therefore have no need to be on bike lanes. Probably a lot more reasons as well.
        mikepurvis 5y ago
        The starting point for this discussion was: "Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all?" And my point is that there are a lot of devices out there that are legally an ebike, and therefore have access to bike infrastructure provided the observe a 20MPH speed limit, but that are in reality much heavier and less maneuverable than what most people consider a "bicycle". Obviously this has been lost on the downvoters, but just as some examples, if I were out with my kids cycling on a multi-use path, I would not be thrilled to have "bikes" like these passing me at 20MPH: https://rugged.bike/ https://rugged.bike/ https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500 https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    I have a fairly large cargo e-bike; it weighs 75lbs. I weigh 200lbs. I'm sure you'd feel a difference being hit by me that rather than me on my 18lb road bike, but I go faster on my road bike except when climbing.
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      I'd love an Electric Hot-Tub Bakfiets, but the batteries don't last long, they aren't very maneuverable, and they spill a lot around corners. Those things are amazing. Here are a few photos I took of a dude in Amsterdam riding a bakfiets carrying an outdoor urinal. https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW
  - Animats 5y ago
    Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass. Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.
    - mikepurvis 5y ago
      I completely agree— electric fat bikes are totally a fun time, but I think they really land in an odd place when it comes to where they belong on the road. They're likely too bulky and heavy to be in the bike lane, but shouldn't really be in the car lane given their speed limit. And the speed limit shouldn't really be dropped without imposing licensing, and once you're there, there's no point— it's just an electric motorcycle.
jacquesm 5y ago
Here in NL that e-bike would not be legal. It's quite possible that where you live that such a bike is legal. Do check up on it though to make sure!
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Same in Belgium, and they are pretty strict about that.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    And France: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8106261/France-proposes-harsh-new-law-make-illegal-hot-rod-e-bikes.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8106261/Fran...
masklinn 5y ago
> Who's going to confiscate this bike???? Most european cops if they catch you: some countries may treat s-pedelecs as bikes, but in most it's a moped, you need a driving license, insurance, a license plate, and all the legal equipment of a moped (e.g. lights, rear view mirror), and commonly type approval (which is going to be very, very expensive). Also can't use cycle paths. Over the last few years many (but probably not all) member countries have passed laws to treat devices not exceeding 25km/h to bikes, but that's only for hard-limited devices, not "I swear I don't go faster than 25", the latter? mopeds.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  On the day that daylight saving time changes so it's dark an hour early, the Dutch police sneak out all around the city, hide behind bushes, and jump out to surprise unsuspecting bike riders who don't have their lights on yet, and write them traffic tickets.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    This has to be a joke right?
    - throwaway984393 5y ago
      Dutch people don't joke; they insult you and then laugh
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      No, it actually happened to me, but it may have been a mailbox the cop was hiding behind.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > it's a moped, you need a driving license, insurance, a license plate, and all the legal equipment of a moped (e.g. lights, rear view mirror), and commonly type approval (which is going to be very, very expensive). The amount of bureaucracy in Europe for completely mundane things is completely unbelievable. Getting a Driver's license in France, for example, is an uphill battle against a very hostile administration. I can completely see why some tried to dodge some of these absurd regulations by innovating in the e-bike space. Having a tiny bike barely able to break the 25mph limit be considered a moped just because it has a throttle as well as pedal assist is completely ridiculous.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

oppositelock 5y ago

It depends where you are. Most EU countries forbid throttles, but they're ok in the US as long as your under 1000W motor output (Federal laws), but local laws can make this stricter. I've built several e-bikes, for fun, and like the author of this article, I've got a long range one, but only with about half of his battery capacity, which is enough for me.

hendersoon 5y ago

Depends on your country, really. Throttle ebikes are legal in the USA so long as they don't go faster than 20MPH on throttle alone. And really speed is what matters here. Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all? There's no safety concern.

mikepurvis 5y ago
At a certain point, you've added enough extra mass to the vehicle in terms of batteries, motor, beefed up brakes and frame, etc that you need to start asking questions about how much kinetic energy it's carrying and what happens to it all in case of a crash. Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  Yeah, there's an argument to be made somewhere here about banning obese people from running. :P
- jacquesm 5y ago
  The weight of the bike + rider is still well below what some riders weigh all by themselves. Compared to a scooter it's a featherweight, compared to a regular e-bike it's about a 5 Kg premium.
- iso1210 5y ago
  > Silly comparison, but we wouldn't let a car drive on the sidewalk even if it had a special module that limited it to 5km/h. We do in the UK - it's perfectly normal for cars (including police cars) to mount and drive along the pavement, before being left there
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Same in China. Doesn’t matter if they are allowed to park there or not.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    Same in practically every European country I’ve been to. And it’s not like it doesn’t happen in the US either. Most residential streets don’t have sidewalks in the first place so technically parking in front of a house without a curb or lane is the exact equivalent. Just because it isn’t explicitly marked as a sidewalk doesn’t mean it isn’t treated as one when it’s the only option.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    There has been some talk of changing the law on that, although I can’t see how that would work in many streets.
- iambateman 5y ago
  There’s an order of magnitude between a 2 ton vehicle and a 250 pound vehicle+rider. Cars also have huge blind spots and if a bike rider gets in an accident, it’s usually very painful for them too, so their incentives to avoid accidents are quite high.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    Okay, then take away the blind spots and some of the mass and ask the same question— why don't we allow motorcycles to drive on the sidewalk or multiuse paths assuming they pinky swear to always go really slowly?
    - HPsquared 5y ago
      Seriously? 1. Motorbikes weigh at least 10 times as much as bicycles, and can't be picked up any moved around by the rider 2. Motorbikes are much wider than bicycles 3. Motorbikes can accelerate much faster than bicycles 4. Motorbikes emit noise and exhaust fumes 5. Motorbikes have a much larger turning radius than bicycles 6. Motorbikes are capable of keeping up with cars and therefore have no need to be on bike lanes. Probably a lot more reasons as well.
      - mikepurvis 5y ago
        The starting point for this discussion was: "Who cares if it's pedal-assist or throttle so long as you aren't going markedly faster than normal people without any motor at all?" And my point is that there are a lot of devices out there that are legally an ebike, and therefore have access to bike infrastructure provided the observe a 20MPH speed limit, but that are in reality much heavier and less maneuverable than what most people consider a "bicycle". Obviously this has been lost on the downvoters, but just as some examples, if I were out with my kids cycling on a multi-use path, I would not be thrilled to have "bikes" like these passing me at 20MPH: https://rugged.bike/ https://rugged.bike/ https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://ebikegeneration.com/collections/rambo https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500 https://www.addmotor.com/products/m-5500
- aidenn0 5y ago
  I have a fairly large cargo e-bike; it weighs 75lbs. I weigh 200lbs. I'm sure you'd feel a difference being hit by me that rather than me on my 18lb road bike, but I go faster on my road bike except when climbing.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    I'd love an Electric Hot-Tub Bakfiets, but the batteries don't last long, they aren't very maneuverable, and they spill a lot around corners. Those things are amazing. Here are a few photos I took of a dude in Amsterdam riding a bakfiets carrying an outdoor urinal. https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW https://imgur.com/a/nq2rnBW
- Animats 5y ago
  Yes. Maybe a stopping-distance requirement. Many "e-bikes" are under-braked and under-tired for their speed and mass. Big-tire "e-bikes" with disk brakes are really light motorcycles. Forget the pedals and admit it.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    I completely agree— electric fat bikes are totally a fun time, but I think they really land in an odd place when it comes to where they belong on the road. They're likely too bulky and heavy to be in the bike lane, but shouldn't really be in the car lane given their speed limit. And the speed limit shouldn't really be dropped without imposing licensing, and once you're there, there's no point— it's just an electric motorcycle.

jacquesm 5y ago

Here in NL that e-bike would not be legal. It's quite possible that where you live that such a bike is legal. Do check up on it though to make sure!

koonsolo 5y ago
Same in Belgium, and they are pretty strict about that.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  And France: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8106261/France-proposes-harsh-new-law-make-illegal-hot-rod-e-bikes.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8106261/Fran...

masklinn 5y ago

> Who's going to confiscate this bike???? Most european cops if they catch you: some countries may treat s-pedelecs as bikes, but in most it's a moped, you need a driving license, insurance, a license plate, and all the legal equipment of a moped (e.g. lights, rear view mirror), and commonly type approval (which is going to be very, very expensive). Also can't use cycle paths. Over the last few years many (but probably not all) member countries have passed laws to treat devices not exceeding 25km/h to bikes, but that's only for hard-limited devices, not "I swear I don't go faster than 25", the latter? mopeds.

DonHopkins 5y ago
On the day that daylight saving time changes so it's dark an hour early, the Dutch police sneak out all around the city, hide behind bushes, and jump out to surprise unsuspecting bike riders who don't have their lights on yet, and write them traffic tickets.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  This has to be a joke right?
  - throwaway984393 5y ago
    Dutch people don't joke; they insult you and then laugh
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    No, it actually happened to me, but it may have been a mailbox the cop was hiding behind.
908B64B197 5y ago
> it's a moped, you need a driving license, insurance, a license plate, and all the legal equipment of a moped (e.g. lights, rear view mirror), and commonly type approval (which is going to be very, very expensive). The amount of bureaucracy in Europe for completely mundane things is completely unbelievable. Getting a Driver's license in France, for example, is an uphill battle against a very hostile administration. I can completely see why some tried to dodge some of these absurd regulations by innovating in the e-bike space. Having a tiny bike barely able to break the 25mph limit be considered a moped just because it has a throttle as well as pedal assist is completely ridiculous.