5 ms·

What do you mean by American-style policing? What sort of policing is significantly different from it and how many countries does that exist in?

by mc32 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago
When I say "American-style," I mean a few characteristics that I understand to be mostly unique to American law enforcement: * Devolvement to the lowest levels of municipal and/or county government, making standardization of training and practices across the entire country (much less individual states) virtually impossible. This is in contrast to countries like France, where the national police forces are an order of magnitude larger than municipal forces and command correspondingly greater authority. * Use of force & weapons-carrying. It's my understanding that the vast majority of normal LEOs in Western Europe do not carry guns on them during their normal patrols, and that use-of-force incidents (including civilian deaths) are correspondingly lower in most of Europe[1]. * Prevalence of policing fraternities and unions. Again, it's my understanding that these are a somewhat unique feature of American police forces: other countries might have labor protections for LEOs, but do not have pseudo-official organizations that provide cover for officer abuses. The closest thing I'm aware of is the ECP[2], which seems to be more of a legislative group. [1]: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-differen... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Confederation_of_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Confederation_of_Poli...
- Clubber 5y ago
  Qualified immunity and self regulation are big ones. I'm not sure if police in other countries can kill people for dubious reasons and the legal results is, "they acted within the policy and the law." Also deferment of consequence. When a cop does something wrong, neither he, nor his union, nor the department, nor his pension fund, nor his budget face any financial consequences; that's a burden of the city, ultimately the tax payor, who ironically is the group being infringed upon.
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  Anecdotally I see people with machine guns in the streets and especially in transit hubs in Europe much more often than in the U.S. It is true that ~all U.S. cops on a beat carry guns, whereas in the U.K. that's not the case. I get the impression that pretty much all cops in France have guns too, though.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Yeah, I've noticed that when visiting Europe. It's not that different from the transit hubs here in NYC -- it's common to see Port Authority and other agencies with full rifles and machine guns. But I think that's somewhat recent; perhaps within the last decade, and certainly not common elsewhere in the US. That being said, my understanding is that those armed forces are usually gendarmerie in Europe -- half police, half civilian military. The US doesn't have anything resembling that because of Posse Comitatus[1], so they're difficult to compare directly. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
    - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
      Huh, interesting! We do have the National Guard (confusingly named, state-based organizations under the governor of that state)
      - Ancapistani 5y ago
        Some US states also have militias that are wholly controlled by the state and not able to be called up by the federal goverment. I’m familiar with the Virginia Defense Force off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Defense_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Defense_Force
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Some US states also have militias that are wholly controlled by the state and not able to be called up by the federal goverment. Since the unorganized, universal militia can be called up by the federal government, in any groupings or manner Congress chooses to adopt, that's not true. Some states have organized militia or military reserve forces that aren't part of the federal military reserve system the way the National Guard is, though.
- dekhn 5y ago
  The most aggressive looking police I've ever seen were in Frankfurt airport, looking for terrorists, a decade before 9/11. Openly carrying machine guns. Never saw that in a us airport until after 9/11. https://www.massport.com/massport/media/newsroom/logan-is-first-to-arm-troopers-with-submachine-guns-training-and-deployment-completed-for-enhanced-accuracy-and-firepower/ https://www.massport.com/massport/media/newsroom/logan-is-fi... Don't take the above and think that i'm implying police in europe are more heavily armed on average.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Yeah. I heard the police can sick dogs on suspects there in Frankfurt. Big Dobermans on your thigh or calf till they think you’re calm enough.
  - Arrath 5y ago
    While true that visibly well armed officers are patrolling some high security areas like airports or central squares, etc. in Europe, contrast this to every beat cop in the states being armed, and in most cases the squad car carries a rifle.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      it's like you totally missed my concluding sentence.
      - mikem170 5y ago
        Then why did you bring up the Frankfurt cops? Or do you agree that typical cops in the U.S. are different than those in Europe?
        netizen-936824 5y ago
        They brought it up because they wanted to attempt to distract from the point being made with some 'whataboutism'

What do you mean by American-style policing? What sort of policing is significantly different from it and how many countries does that exist in?

by mc32 5y ago

What do you mean by American-style policing? What sort of policing is significantly different from it and how many countries does that exist in?

woodruffw 5y ago

When I say "American-style," I mean a few characteristics that I understand to be mostly unique to American law enforcement: * Devolvement to the lowest levels of municipal and/or county government, making standardization of training and practices across the entire country (much less individual states) virtually impossible. This is in contrast to countries like France, where the national police forces are an order of magnitude larger than municipal forces and command correspondingly greater authority. * Use of force & weapons-carrying. It's my understanding that the vast majority of normal LEOs in Western Europe do not carry guns on them during their normal patrols, and that use-of-force incidents (including civilian deaths) are correspondingly lower in most of Europe[1]. * Prevalence of policing fraternities and unions. Again, it's my understanding that these are a somewhat unique feature of American police forces: other countries might have labor protections for LEOs, but do not have pseudo-official organizations that provide cover for officer abuses. The closest thing I'm aware of is the ECP[2], which seems to be more of a legislative group. [1]: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-differen... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Confederation_of_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Confederation_of_Poli...

Clubber 5y ago
Qualified immunity and self regulation are big ones. I'm not sure if police in other countries can kill people for dubious reasons and the legal results is, "they acted within the policy and the law." Also deferment of consequence. When a cop does something wrong, neither he, nor his union, nor the department, nor his pension fund, nor his budget face any financial consequences; that's a burden of the city, ultimately the tax payor, who ironically is the group being infringed upon.
NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
Anecdotally I see people with machine guns in the streets and especially in transit hubs in Europe much more often than in the U.S. It is true that ~all U.S. cops on a beat carry guns, whereas in the U.K. that's not the case. I get the impression that pretty much all cops in France have guns too, though.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Yeah, I've noticed that when visiting Europe. It's not that different from the transit hubs here in NYC -- it's common to see Port Authority and other agencies with full rifles and machine guns. But I think that's somewhat recent; perhaps within the last decade, and certainly not common elsewhere in the US. That being said, my understanding is that those armed forces are usually gendarmerie in Europe -- half police, half civilian military. The US doesn't have anything resembling that because of Posse Comitatus[1], so they're difficult to compare directly. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
  - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
    Huh, interesting! We do have the National Guard (confusingly named, state-based organizations under the governor of that state)
    - Ancapistani 5y ago
      Some US states also have militias that are wholly controlled by the state and not able to be called up by the federal goverment. I’m familiar with the Virginia Defense Force off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Defense_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Defense_Force
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Some US states also have militias that are wholly controlled by the state and not able to be called up by the federal goverment. Since the unorganized, universal militia can be called up by the federal government, in any groupings or manner Congress chooses to adopt, that's not true. Some states have organized militia or military reserve forces that aren't part of the federal military reserve system the way the National Guard is, though.
dekhn 5y ago
The most aggressive looking police I've ever seen were in Frankfurt airport, looking for terrorists, a decade before 9/11. Openly carrying machine guns. Never saw that in a us airport until after 9/11. https://www.massport.com/massport/media/newsroom/logan-is-first-to-arm-troopers-with-submachine-guns-training-and-deployment-completed-for-enhanced-accuracy-and-firepower/ https://www.massport.com/massport/media/newsroom/logan-is-fi... Don't take the above and think that i'm implying police in europe are more heavily armed on average.
- mc32 5y ago
  Yeah. I heard the police can sick dogs on suspects there in Frankfurt. Big Dobermans on your thigh or calf till they think you’re calm enough.
- Arrath 5y ago
  While true that visibly well armed officers are patrolling some high security areas like airports or central squares, etc. in Europe, contrast this to every beat cop in the states being armed, and in most cases the squad car carries a rifle.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    it's like you totally missed my concluding sentence.
    - mikem170 5y ago
      Then why did you bring up the Frankfurt cops? Or do you agree that typical cops in the U.S. are different than those in Europe?
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        They brought it up because they wanted to attempt to distract from the point being made with some 'whataboutism'