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javascript implies well educated? so much LOL here. maybe perl programmers are happy with perl and have no interest in learning yet another programming languag

by b20000 5y ago

javascript implies well educated? so much LOL here. maybe perl programmers are happy with perl and have no interest in learning yet another programming language.

zinekeller 5y ago
While there are many Javascript "developers" that don't deserve that title, there are much much more actually-good JS developers than actually-good Perl developers, not to mention the willingness to program Javascript than Perl.
- b20000 5y ago
  i might be able to accept that there are more javascript developers than perl developers. this then implies there are more good javascript developers, but only if javascript does not attract more wannabe developers. and i think that might be the issue.
  - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
    Why gatekeep being a developer?
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    No, seriously, there is absolutely no comparison between the number of Perl 5 and JavaScript developers. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020 Most popular technologies: JavaScript: 67.7% for all devs, 69.7% for pro devs): First place! Perl: 3.1% for all devs, 3.3% with pro devs: Third from last place, only a wee bit more popular than Haskel and Julia! And you can take a guess at how many jobs for Haskel and Julia programmers there are. And it's not like good Perl 5 programmers are dropping dead, or being hit by busses: They're simply moving on to better, more popular, well supported, widely taught, more modern, higher paying, more pleasurable languages! Any programmer who permanently sticks to only one language and has "no interest in learning yet another programming language" simply isn't a good programmer, no matter what their only language is. Any decent professional programmer (ESPECIALLY web developers) should have no trouble picking up and applying new languages, and regularly using multiple languages together at the same time every day. The world is not partitions into mono-linguistic silos, and no one language is good for everything. If those monolinguistic Perl 5 developers b20000 speaks of who refuse to use any other languages are the only ones left for BooKing.com to hire, then it's no wonder they have enormous security holes and terrible buggy hard-to-maintain code. https://www.fastcompany.com/3026446/the-fall-of-perl-the-webs-most-promising-language https://www.fastcompany.com/3026446/the-fall-of-perl-the-web...
DonHopkins 5y ago
No, I actually meant to indicate that there is a densely populated multidimensional spectrum of young to old, local to remote, well education to self taught, highly experienced to self motivated. While generally speaking, most remaining Perl 5 programmers are old, remote, self taught, highly experienced, very busy, hard to find, and extremely expensive. There aren't many schools and universities and bootcamps and online learning sites and youtube channels cranking out new Perl 5 programmers that I know of. But there are a hell of a lot of them for JavaScript.
- b20000 5y ago
  the job of a university is to teach CS, not a specific programming language. javascript is just a language like any other, there is nothing particularly good about it. it became popular because a scripting language was needed in browsers and because every idiot out there wants to become a web developer because they think they will be zuckerburg in 6 months. indeed, there are endless programming bootcamps parasiting off these people as you pointed out. finally, it is perfectly valid to choose to become BETTER in a tool set instead of learning a new one every year. i’m pretty sure there are many developers out there who have no interest in learning other languages and are content in spending their valuable time learning other skills that are more valuable.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    Anti-intellectualism and refusal to learn any other language isn't going to get you a good job or much interesting experience. You can get better in one language by learning and using several other different languages (the more languages and the more different, the better), which expands the scope of what you know how to do in ANY language. And if you refuse to learn more than one language, that limits yourself to tasks that don't involve multiple languages, which is a large proportion of the typical tasks a professional programmer encounters. Many common tasks are impossible to do in only one language, since all libraries and apps aren't written in the same language. Again, my point that you haven't countered is: Any programmer who permanently sticks to only one language and has "no interest in learning yet another programming language" simply isn't a good programmer, no matter what their only language is. Any decent professional programmer (ESPECIALLY web developers) should have no trouble picking up and applying new languages, and regularly using multiple languages together at the same time every day. The world is not partitions into mono-linguistic silos, and no one language is good for everything. If those monolinguistic Perl 5 developers b20000 speaks of who refuse to use any other languages are the only ones left for BooKing.com to hire, then it's no wonder they have enormous security holes and terrible buggy hard-to-maintain code. Have you ever actually met any of those hypothetical monolinguistic Perl 5 developers in person who you're "pretty sure" exist, and actually discussed with them why they refuse to learn or use any other language, and asked them who they work for, and what they work on, and how they enjoy it? Or will you actually admit to being a monolinguistic Perl 5 programmer yourself, and answer those questions about yourself, please? Or are the people you speak of entirely theoretical and unknown to you? If you are saying that Perl 5 makes people give up learning other languages, that sounds like a horrible thing about Perl 5, because it's so discouraging, but unfortunately it's probably partly correct for some people. But not all programming languages are as hard to learn, and program in, and read, and debug, and maintain, and find good jobs for, and hire good programmers for, as Perl 5! Please don't give up just because you picked the wrong first language to learn.

by b20000 5y ago

javascript implies well educated? so much LOL here. maybe perl programmers are happy with perl and have no interest in learning yet another programming language.

zinekeller 5y ago

While there are many Javascript "developers" that don't deserve that title, there are much much more actually-good JS developers than actually-good Perl developers, not to mention the willingness to program Javascript than Perl.

b20000 5y ago
i might be able to accept that there are more javascript developers than perl developers. this then implies there are more good javascript developers, but only if javascript does not attract more wannabe developers. and i think that might be the issue.
- cto_of_antifa 5y ago
  Why gatekeep being a developer?
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  No, seriously, there is absolutely no comparison between the number of Perl 5 and JavaScript developers. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020 Most popular technologies: JavaScript: 67.7% for all devs, 69.7% for pro devs): First place! Perl: 3.1% for all devs, 3.3% with pro devs: Third from last place, only a wee bit more popular than Haskel and Julia! And you can take a guess at how many jobs for Haskel and Julia programmers there are. And it's not like good Perl 5 programmers are dropping dead, or being hit by busses: They're simply moving on to better, more popular, well supported, widely taught, more modern, higher paying, more pleasurable languages! Any programmer who permanently sticks to only one language and has "no interest in learning yet another programming language" simply isn't a good programmer, no matter what their only language is. Any decent professional programmer (ESPECIALLY web developers) should have no trouble picking up and applying new languages, and regularly using multiple languages together at the same time every day. The world is not partitions into mono-linguistic silos, and no one language is good for everything. If those monolinguistic Perl 5 developers b20000 speaks of who refuse to use any other languages are the only ones left for BooKing.com to hire, then it's no wonder they have enormous security holes and terrible buggy hard-to-maintain code. https://www.fastcompany.com/3026446/the-fall-of-perl-the-webs-most-promising-language https://www.fastcompany.com/3026446/the-fall-of-perl-the-web...

DonHopkins 5y ago

No, I actually meant to indicate that there is a densely populated multidimensional spectrum of young to old, local to remote, well education to self taught, highly experienced to self motivated. While generally speaking, most remaining Perl 5 programmers are old, remote, self taught, highly experienced, very busy, hard to find, and extremely expensive. There aren't many schools and universities and bootcamps and online learning sites and youtube channels cranking out new Perl 5 programmers that I know of. But there are a hell of a lot of them for JavaScript.

b20000 5y ago
the job of a university is to teach CS, not a specific programming language. javascript is just a language like any other, there is nothing particularly good about it. it became popular because a scripting language was needed in browsers and because every idiot out there wants to become a web developer because they think they will be zuckerburg in 6 months. indeed, there are endless programming bootcamps parasiting off these people as you pointed out. finally, it is perfectly valid to choose to become BETTER in a tool set instead of learning a new one every year. i’m pretty sure there are many developers out there who have no interest in learning other languages and are content in spending their valuable time learning other skills that are more valuable.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  Anti-intellectualism and refusal to learn any other language isn't going to get you a good job or much interesting experience. You can get better in one language by learning and using several other different languages (the more languages and the more different, the better), which expands the scope of what you know how to do in ANY language. And if you refuse to learn more than one language, that limits yourself to tasks that don't involve multiple languages, which is a large proportion of the typical tasks a professional programmer encounters. Many common tasks are impossible to do in only one language, since all libraries and apps aren't written in the same language. Again, my point that you haven't countered is: Any programmer who permanently sticks to only one language and has "no interest in learning yet another programming language" simply isn't a good programmer, no matter what their only language is. Any decent professional programmer (ESPECIALLY web developers) should have no trouble picking up and applying new languages, and regularly using multiple languages together at the same time every day. The world is not partitions into mono-linguistic silos, and no one language is good for everything. If those monolinguistic Perl 5 developers b20000 speaks of who refuse to use any other languages are the only ones left for BooKing.com to hire, then it's no wonder they have enormous security holes and terrible buggy hard-to-maintain code. Have you ever actually met any of those hypothetical monolinguistic Perl 5 developers in person who you're "pretty sure" exist, and actually discussed with them why they refuse to learn or use any other language, and asked them who they work for, and what they work on, and how they enjoy it? Or will you actually admit to being a monolinguistic Perl 5 programmer yourself, and answer those questions about yourself, please? Or are the people you speak of entirely theoretical and unknown to you? If you are saying that Perl 5 makes people give up learning other languages, that sounds like a horrible thing about Perl 5, because it's so discouraging, but unfortunately it's probably partly correct for some people. But not all programming languages are as hard to learn, and program in, and read, and debug, and maintain, and find good jobs for, and hire good programmers for, as Perl 5! Please don't give up just because you picked the wrong first language to learn.