7 ms·

Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti r

by Lhiw 5y ago

Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti racist is wrong? Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Removing homework and grading? Because "racism"? You shouldn't be penalizing well off people (white or not) with worse schooling because some lower class students (black or not) dont have enough time to study after school. What you should be doing is figuring out how to not penalize those with less opportunity to ensure they can either catch up or at least not fall behind.

thablackbull 5y ago
> Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care.
- Lhiw 5y ago
  They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    This. People in other places do not care that much (setting aside the worrying possibility that this kind of thinking may be later imported to their own countries), but given the prominence of English in worldwide communication and the massive role of American media, they will read the news and either laugh or frown. American internal problems are much more visible to the outside world than, say, Italian ones.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    >They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids. Why laugh? I guess they will be glad they will winning the competition. If anything, they will encourage the US to continue on the same path, they'll might even praise it.
- sieabahlpark 5y ago
  You're asking whether China cares that the greatest potential threat to their very existence is dumbing down their populace? Did you go through this very system recently?
- theteapot 5y ago
  Was that a question? I live in Asia, America is a constant and dependable source of laughs. We care. Keep bringing the laughs please.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  They care very much. Most other countries follow the US pretty closely. I have a weird thing going on in my personal life where every so often a Chinese friend will suddenly ask me about something in American domestic politics that I've never heard of. And every so often I'll ask about something in Chinese domestic politics that they've never heard of.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  I think the more important question is whether we should care what China thinks. Is China really what we want to aspire to?
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    Maybe you should care if China is on a better path towards the future than your country?
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  >Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care. In EU we copy most stupid things US is doing but none of the good things US is doing. So I do care.
- GoblinSlayer 5y ago
  Stupid people learn from their own mistakes, smart people learn from other people's mistakes.
iforgotpassword 5y ago
> Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? I Don't think this is what GP said. Where do you get this from? These two things are unrelated, the way I interpret the comment.
askafriend 5y ago
They mention that because it emphasizes their other point. It's the equivalent of "I'm a vegetarian but even I drool at the thought of bacon". You don't have to mention that you're vegetarian....it's there because it places extra emphasis on how appealing bacon can be. sigh did I really to break it down like that
- esyir 5y ago
  There's the other side of the coin though. You say that not to emphasise the point, but to protect yourself. "I'm not a racist because I agree with x", don't call me a racist for disagreeing with you.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - laserbeam 5y ago
    Sort of, was an "I don't have to be a racist to agree with X". Or "Hey, I'm on your side, but you did X poorly."
- Larrikin 5y ago
  When a comment appears to a be a troll, is overly hostile, etc it's usually helpful to look at the account creation date and their posts history before bothering with a response. Sometimes it's someone with a varied history burning karma for a topic they are passionate about, but in this posters history it's obviously not.
  - Lhiw 5y ago
    [flagged]
wwilim 5y ago
How is this penalizing well-off students? By making it harder to automatically get ahead in education just because your poor classmates are sliding off the slippery slope of a negative feedback loop? I wouldn't call it penalizing.
- Lhiw 5y ago
  They're dropping the homework requirement. This is a huge amount of extra study time to absorb and practice what you've learned throughout the day.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    Underprivileged or not, homework assignments are ridiculously over assigned. Kids go to school for 8 hours to learn, then they are expected to go home and ... work some more? Just like I don't think it is fair for my employer to expect me to work when I go home, children should stop school work when they go home. There is usually a 1 hour study hall period for students in high school. Teachers should either provide time in class to do any assignments or limit the time required to do those assignments to whatever share of that daily study hall hour they can negotiate among the other teachers/subjects.
    - Lhiw 5y ago
      This is how you fall behind on the world stage. I'm not suggesting Japan's approach to homework is a good thing to model, but I am suggesting Korea's approach to teacher superstars is. Homework is a tool, you can use it to your advantage or abuse it. I'm not going to suggest I know the net best outcome for all students but I suspect, more time practicing is going to help for a lot of students. Especially the ones that don't learn well around others.
- laserbeam 5y ago
  This is actually a fun thing to talk about, but an HN thread is insufficient. There are schools and countries out there who focus more on excellence and cater to the top students. They put a ton of effort and praise on the top % with contests, a dense curriculum. I think most of eastern Europe, possibly Russia and likely a lot of other places fall into this category. On the other side, you have places like Scandinavia where the curriculum is less dense, and teachers focus on getting everyone above a lower knowledge threshold. It's a great topic to research if you want to actually improve the education system. Go have fun reading and learning about it, the more you understand about the tradeoffs of these approaches, the better! But that's clearly not what the author of the article, or the commenter referred to. _sigh_
laserbeam 5y ago
> Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? I'm only going to argue this point. I could claim an idea is bad because I disagree with the idea. Let's say you say that something is racist and I disagree and we have an argument about whether that thing is racist or not. The article claims (among many other things) that there are racist undertones here. However, that's not my point here. The problem here is the article claimed to talk about A (school reform) but spent 70% of it's page space on B (things suck, and racism is involved). And I didn't care about B when the author promised me A and the author DID NOT ACTUALLY COVER A. I'm not attacking the B idea, just the inconsistency of the whole writing. Malcom Gladwell (for example) covers institutional racism in schools VERY WELL in his podcast Revisionist History. He delivers B quite successfully. And I'm sure other authors are great at discussing B if they want to.
hhaha88 5y ago
Why did you see a link between their agreement with the premise of institutional racism and the writing is bad? Just to make this comment? Who cares if Asia is laughing at us? What does that even mean? A geographical region has a sense of humor? You’re anthropomorphizing maps, linking disparate ideas for no reason, and trying to solve institutional racism in 5 sentences that could have been copy-pasted off any number of long deleted message boards over the last 30 years (I’ve been online that long). This is laughable discourse. This forum thinking it’s better than Reddit is great. FWIW I don’t think any of you actually have a net worth. We’re just repeating the most commonly reinforced sentences of the last few decades.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  FWIW I don’t think any of you actually have a net worth. We’re just repeating the most commonly reinforced sentences of the last few decades. Everyone has a net worth, which will highlight some things and leave out others. Sometimes it is zero or negative, but you still have one. But I'm guessing that wasn't an error but a thinly veiled way to call everyone poor as an insult.
  - hhaha88 5y ago
    Would you accept a Christian forcing you to recite their Bible and behave within their tradition? Why must I accept your view of worthiness? What is reinforced in ones neurology becomes the most probable ideas one will work with. I get I have to work within the concept socially, but I’m pantomiming belief. If I die there are millions of others who can replace my effort. The same is true of any of us; all these tech enabled companies aren’t running on just your effort. Why should the concept that makes you feel warm and fuzzy be mine? I’m guessing that wasn’t an error, but that you’ve simply never considered others might sincerely not give fuck about your personal perspective of how things work socially. You get a vote. Otherwise you’re just 1 of 7 billion. It’s not written in a contract we’re all friends
DeathArrow 5y ago
>Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti racist is wrong? That's a reasonable worry in these days.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I don't have an issue with it and spend zero time worrying about it. Why do you think it is reasonable?

by Lhiw 5y ago

thablackbull 5y ago

> Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care.

Lhiw 5y ago
They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  This. People in other places do not care that much (setting aside the worrying possibility that this kind of thinking may be later imported to their own countries), but given the prominence of English in worldwide communication and the massive role of American media, they will read the news and either laugh or frown. American internal problems are much more visible to the outside world than, say, Italian ones.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  >They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids. Why laugh? I guess they will be glad they will winning the competition. If anything, they will encourage the US to continue on the same path, they'll might even praise it.
sieabahlpark 5y ago
You're asking whether China cares that the greatest potential threat to their very existence is dumbing down their populace? Did you go through this very system recently?
theteapot 5y ago
Was that a question? I live in Asia, America is a constant and dependable source of laughs. We care. Keep bringing the laughs please.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
They care very much. Most other countries follow the US pretty closely. I have a weird thing going on in my personal life where every so often a Chinese friend will suddenly ask me about something in American domestic politics that I've never heard of. And every so often I'll ask about something in Chinese domestic politics that they've never heard of.
jjeaff 5y ago
I think the more important question is whether we should care what China thinks. Is China really what we want to aspire to?
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  Maybe you should care if China is on a better path towards the future than your country?
DeathArrow 5y ago
>Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care. In EU we copy most stupid things US is doing but none of the good things US is doing. So I do care.
GoblinSlayer 5y ago
Stupid people learn from their own mistakes, smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

iforgotpassword 5y ago

> Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? I Don't think this is what GP said. Where do you get this from? These two things are unrelated, the way I interpret the comment.

askafriend 5y ago

They mention that because it emphasizes their other point. It's the equivalent of "I'm a vegetarian but even I drool at the thought of bacon". You don't have to mention that you're vegetarian....it's there because it places extra emphasis on how appealing bacon can be. sigh did I really to break it down like that

esyir 5y ago
There's the other side of the coin though. You say that not to emphasise the point, but to protect yourself. "I'm not a racist because I agree with x", don't call me a racist for disagreeing with you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- laserbeam 5y ago
  Sort of, was an "I don't have to be a racist to agree with X". Or "Hey, I'm on your side, but you did X poorly."
Larrikin 5y ago
When a comment appears to a be a troll, is overly hostile, etc it's usually helpful to look at the account creation date and their posts history before bothering with a response. Sometimes it's someone with a varied history burning karma for a topic they are passionate about, but in this posters history it's obviously not.
- Lhiw 5y ago
  [flagged]

wwilim 5y ago

How is this penalizing well-off students? By making it harder to automatically get ahead in education just because your poor classmates are sliding off the slippery slope of a negative feedback loop? I wouldn't call it penalizing.

Lhiw 5y ago
They're dropping the homework requirement. This is a huge amount of extra study time to absorb and practice what you've learned throughout the day.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Underprivileged or not, homework assignments are ridiculously over assigned. Kids go to school for 8 hours to learn, then they are expected to go home and ... work some more? Just like I don't think it is fair for my employer to expect me to work when I go home, children should stop school work when they go home. There is usually a 1 hour study hall period for students in high school. Teachers should either provide time in class to do any assignments or limit the time required to do those assignments to whatever share of that daily study hall hour they can negotiate among the other teachers/subjects.
  - Lhiw 5y ago
    This is how you fall behind on the world stage. I'm not suggesting Japan's approach to homework is a good thing to model, but I am suggesting Korea's approach to teacher superstars is. Homework is a tool, you can use it to your advantage or abuse it. I'm not going to suggest I know the net best outcome for all students but I suspect, more time practicing is going to help for a lot of students. Especially the ones that don't learn well around others.
laserbeam 5y ago
This is actually a fun thing to talk about, but an HN thread is insufficient. There are schools and countries out there who focus more on excellence and cater to the top students. They put a ton of effort and praise on the top % with contests, a dense curriculum. I think most of eastern Europe, possibly Russia and likely a lot of other places fall into this category. On the other side, you have places like Scandinavia where the curriculum is less dense, and teachers focus on getting everyone above a lower knowledge threshold. It's a great topic to research if you want to actually improve the education system. Go have fun reading and learning about it, the more you understand about the tradeoffs of these approaches, the better! But that's clearly not what the author of the article, or the commenter referred to. _sigh_

laserbeam 5y ago

> Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? I'm only going to argue this point. I could claim an idea is bad because I disagree with the idea. Let's say you say that something is racist and I disagree and we have an argument about whether that thing is racist or not. The article claims (among many other things) that there are racist undertones here. However, that's not my point here. The problem here is the article claimed to talk about A (school reform) but spent 70% of it's page space on B (things suck, and racism is involved). And I didn't care about B when the author promised me A and the author DID NOT ACTUALLY COVER A. I'm not attacking the B idea, just the inconsistency of the whole writing. Malcom Gladwell (for example) covers institutional racism in schools VERY WELL in his podcast Revisionist History. He delivers B quite successfully. And I'm sure other authors are great at discussing B if they want to.

hhaha88 5y ago

Why did you see a link between their agreement with the premise of institutional racism and the writing is bad? Just to make this comment? Who cares if Asia is laughing at us? What does that even mean? A geographical region has a sense of humor? You’re anthropomorphizing maps, linking disparate ideas for no reason, and trying to solve institutional racism in 5 sentences that could have been copy-pasted off any number of long deleted message boards over the last 30 years (I’ve been online that long). This is laughable discourse. This forum thinking it’s better than Reddit is great. FWIW I don’t think any of you actually have a net worth. We’re just repeating the most commonly reinforced sentences of the last few decades.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
FWIW I don’t think any of you actually have a net worth. We’re just repeating the most commonly reinforced sentences of the last few decades. Everyone has a net worth, which will highlight some things and leave out others. Sometimes it is zero or negative, but you still have one. But I'm guessing that wasn't an error but a thinly veiled way to call everyone poor as an insult.
- hhaha88 5y ago
  Would you accept a Christian forcing you to recite their Bible and behave within their tradition? Why must I accept your view of worthiness? What is reinforced in ones neurology becomes the most probable ideas one will work with. I get I have to work within the concept socially, but I’m pantomiming belief. If I die there are millions of others who can replace my effort. The same is true of any of us; all these tech enabled companies aren’t running on just your effort. Why should the concept that makes you feel warm and fuzzy be mine? I’m guessing that wasn’t an error, but that you’ve simply never considered others might sincerely not give fuck about your personal perspective of how things work socially. You get a vote. Otherwise you’re just 1 of 7 billion. It’s not written in a contract we’re all friends

DeathArrow 5y ago

>Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti racist is wrong? That's a reasonable worry in these days.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
I don't have an issue with it and spend zero time worrying about it. Why do you think it is reasonable?