6 ms·

I was really hoping this is a decent article about what some teacher or school did about the problem. It starts like that but then it goes kablookie... So, a c

I was really hoping this is a decent article about what some teacher or school did about the problem. It starts like that but then it goes kablookie... So, a certain Joshua Moreno is fed up with the system and did something about that, 2 paragraphs. GREAT. Then the rest of the entire article is about institutionalized racism and how the current system fails us. At no point do we get a good example about what mr Moreno did, only what he moved away from. This is horrible confusing writing. I'm sorry but this is absolute click bait garbage. I AGREE with the fact that there is institutionalized racism and I aplaud work to reduce that. But this article is misleading, and confusing, and poorly written. There's no concrete idea in it that we could debate here on HN. If there is, someone would have to rewrite and state it clearly.

jhoechtl 5y ago
Isn't the general intelligence level going down since like 20 years or so? I admit I have no factual proof nor a link to study, I only read and hear that from time to time so this might be an urban legend. But if so, we face a large-scale societal problem we might not even be able to tackle, like leaded gas was likely a major contributor to soaring violence in the 60ies to 80ies.
- sien 5y ago
  Nope. It's going up : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect Mind you, perhaps American High Schools are poised to stop this....
  - gs17 5y ago
    You should look a few sections down in that article. There is evidence that it slowed down and possibly even reversed in recent decades.
  - tomp 5y ago
    You should read your sources before posting them. > Some research suggests that there may be an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s.
  - simonsarris 5y ago
    Even Flynn has written and talked about the reversal of this effect in recent times.
d13 5y ago
I had exactly the same thoughts as while reading it.
Lhiw 5y ago
Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti racist is wrong? Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Removing homework and grading? Because "racism"? You shouldn't be penalizing well off people (white or not) with worse schooling because some lower class students (black or not) dont have enough time to study after school. What you should be doing is figuring out how to not penalize those with less opportunity to ensure they can either catch up or at least not fall behind.
- thablackbull 5y ago
  > Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care.
  - Lhiw 5y ago
    They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      This. People in other places do not care that much (setting aside the worrying possibility that this kind of thinking may be later imported to their own countries), but given the prominence of English in worldwide communication and the massive role of American media, they will read the news and either laugh or frown. American internal problems are much more visible to the outside world than, say, Italian ones.
    - DeathArrow 5y ago
      >They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids. Why laugh? I guess they will be glad they will winning the competition. If anything, they will encourage the US to continue on the same path, they'll might even praise it.
  - sieabahlpark 5y ago
    You're asking whether China cares that the greatest potential threat to their very existence is dumbing down their populace? Did you go through this very system recently?
blub 5y ago
Education is one of the places where institutionalized racism clearly exists in the US and Western Europe, but not in the way you think. According to Wilfred Reilly for the US: “Black (and Latino) students often receive admissions offers with test scores twenty or thirty percentage points lower than those of white or Asian applicants. At a typical top-50 educational institution, the “affirmative action edge” for minority applicants appears to be in the order of 300 test points.” “the middle-class white male applicant to any good college or Fortune 500 job does not actually enjoy massive white privilege. Instead, he is at a 250–310 SAT-point competitive disadvantage relative to an identically qualified Black or Hispanic opponent.“ — Taboo: 10 Facts You Can't Talk About by Wilfred Reilly
tzs 5y ago
> There's no concrete idea in it that we could debate here on HN Sure there is. The problem described in the first few paragraphs is essentially due to a Goodhart's Law situation and the imposition of deadlines that are not actually related to what the class is trying to accomplish. These are both things that are ripe for HN debate (and have been debated in other contexts here).

jhoechtl 5y ago

Isn't the general intelligence level going down since like 20 years or so? I admit I have no factual proof nor a link to study, I only read and hear that from time to time so this might be an urban legend. But if so, we face a large-scale societal problem we might not even be able to tackle, like leaded gas was likely a major contributor to soaring violence in the 60ies to 80ies.

sien 5y ago
Nope. It's going up : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect Mind you, perhaps American High Schools are poised to stop this....
- gs17 5y ago
  You should look a few sections down in that article. There is evidence that it slowed down and possibly even reversed in recent decades.
- tomp 5y ago
  You should read your sources before posting them. > Some research suggests that there may be an ongoing reversed Flynn effect, i.e. a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s.
- simonsarris 5y ago
  Even Flynn has written and talked about the reversal of this effect in recent times.

d13 5y ago

I had exactly the same thoughts as while reading it.

Lhiw 5y ago

Why do you have to agree there is institutional racism in schools to think this is garbage writing? Worried you'll get called a racist for suggesting an anti racist is wrong? Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Removing homework and grading? Because "racism"? You shouldn't be penalizing well off people (white or not) with worse schooling because some lower class students (black or not) dont have enough time to study after school. What you should be doing is figuring out how to not penalize those with less opportunity to ensure they can either catch up or at least not fall behind.

thablackbull 5y ago
> Actually on topic though, Asia is laughing at us. Are you really that self centered that you think that people around the globe care.
- Lhiw 5y ago
  They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    This. People in other places do not care that much (setting aside the worrying possibility that this kind of thinking may be later imported to their own countries), but given the prominence of English in worldwide communication and the massive role of American media, they will read the news and either laugh or frown. American internal problems are much more visible to the outside world than, say, Italian ones.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    >They don't have to care to laugh at us for dumbing down our kids. Why laugh? I guess they will be glad they will winning the competition. If anything, they will encourage the US to continue on the same path, they'll might even praise it.
- sieabahlpark 5y ago
  You're asking whether China cares that the greatest potential threat to their very existence is dumbing down their populace? Did you go through this very system recently?

blub 5y ago

Education is one of the places where institutionalized racism clearly exists in the US and Western Europe, but not in the way you think. According to Wilfred Reilly for the US: “Black (and Latino) students often receive admissions offers with test scores twenty or thirty percentage points lower than those of white or Asian applicants. At a typical top-50 educational institution, the “affirmative action edge” for minority applicants appears to be in the order of 300 test points.” “the middle-class white male applicant to any good college or Fortune 500 job does not actually enjoy massive white privilege. Instead, he is at a 250–310 SAT-point competitive disadvantage relative to an identically qualified Black or Hispanic opponent.“ — Taboo: 10 Facts You Can't Talk About by Wilfred Reilly

tzs 5y ago

> There's no concrete idea in it that we could debate here on HN Sure there is. The problem described in the first few paragraphs is essentially due to a Goodhart's Law situation and the imposition of deadlines that are not actually related to what the class is trying to accomplish. These are both things that are ripe for HN debate (and have been debated in other contexts here).