18 ms·

Reflections on E-Bikes

107 points by olivernyc 5y ago

tromp 5y ago
> Cargo bike carrying three children and their bikes Count again:-)
- rdubz 5y ago
  Haha, good catch, fixed! https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/dad5ac5a83a5806b8f47a367f179e07b8536f64a#diff-b8446c38be67a9a999cd980ee4599ccd7d780024ba39175778b171cf6f2a3d6dR139 https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/dad5ac... Did that via Gitbook WYSIWYG editor, not sure what all those other changes are about, hopefully didn't break anything
hammock 5y ago
I ride an ebike every day. In Chicago they are very prevalent on every other block as part of the bike share system (so no need to worry about storage, theft, recharging or maintenance), and for 15 cents a minute it has become my main form of transportation.
- bbarn 5y ago
  e-bikes replaced the Divvy system? Wow, I've only been gone two years and I never saw one then.
  - ryanchants 5y ago
    No, Divvy has e-bikes as well now.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MivLives 5y ago
One thing that's concerned me about ebikes is helmets. I ride one that can pretty easily handle 25, and if a person is using an old helmet from preMIPs, or has been through a crash that's not going to offer enough protection at those speeds. You need snell, or dot or something certified for faster speeds.
Gigachad 5y ago
IMO, the number one hurdle for ebikes is theft. The things cost a decent chunk of money and there is basically no way to secure them properly. I have owned an ebike and it's such a fun way to get around, but I quickly sold it because I was in constant fear of it being stolen. And shortly after, one of my cheap non ebikes was stolen while locked inside my apartments bike storage area. I think electric scooters might have a bigger impact on transport as they are easier to store inside.
- presentation 5y ago
  As evidenced by the fact that ebikes are wildly popular in Japan where theft is minimal (most people have nothing more than a wheel lock)
- stephc_int13 5y ago
  There is clearly a pain point in need of an innovative solution, might be a sizeable market.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Folding bike :)
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    HN will hate this but the solution is likely to serial number every part on the bike and software lock it down so if you take a battery or something from one bike, it becomes bricked when you stick it in another bike. This would get hard with non electronic parts like wheels though.
    - wyre 5y ago
      That wouldn’t eliminate theft but it would only make it worse for the consumer.
      - convolvatron 5y ago
        you should see what's happening to rental ebikes and scooters in SF. I've got a giant pile of hub bldc motors and battery packs I've picked up off the street that the scrappers left. all of those had gps and were ostensibly only unlockable with the service. I don't see any way the rental company is going to stop that. its certainly not like the police here are going to be anything but abusive if you called them about a bike or scooter that you left out for anyone to get at.
ambivalents 5y ago
I am excited by e-bikes and love riding them, but I'm not nearly as bullish. If you're single living in a bike-friendly city, sure. But I and many others have moved out of cities and often have to transport more than just our own bodies around. Roughly 80% of my rides include my dog (I take him to the park, to day care, to family outings, etc.), and I also appreciate the car as a second informal storage space - climbing shoes, first aid kit, and the like. Basically, ebikes are great when you don't need much anything else besides your self.
- authed 5y ago
  > in a bike-friendly city also, many bike friendly paths don't allow electric bikes (sometimes not enforced and it will probably change in the future though)
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    Is this still really that common?
    - authed 5y ago
      I don't know how common it is, but I have seen this on a multi-use trail system in Florida.
    - MivLives 5y ago
      Legally in the Boston area nothing with a motor is supposed to go on bike paths. It was a law put in place in the 80s to prevent people on mopeds from using bike paths. The end result is rarely enforced from my own experience and from what I've heard from the local electric skateboard group there.
      - SamWhited 5y ago
        I don't know about Boston in particular, but in a lot of places these laws only apply to class 2 ebikes (ones with a throttle). Pedal assist often doesn't count, even though it's got a motor too.
ezfe 5y ago
It is not accurate to use $40,000 as the amount of money needed to get a car. A good new car can be purchased for half that, not to mention the used car market.
- tcoff91 5y ago
  Car insurance, gas, maintenance, oil changes, tires, etc… Total cost of ownership of a car is really high
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    I think this must be a US phenomenon. My used car in the UK costs me about $600/year plus $0.14/mile (including fuel, taxes, inspections, maintenance, depreciation, parking, insurance). And that's in a country with ~$0.09/mile in fuel taxes. Granted this is not the average cost of car ownership but a car chosen for low total ownership cost.
    - serf 5y ago
      >I think this must be a US phenomenon. >a car chosen for low total ownership cost. I own and drive a car that I bought with the intention of owning and maintaining cheaply, too. I am fairly anal about maintenance, so the costs associated with that are actually inflated from what they could be. I live in Southern California, apparently a very expensive place to be. I own a reliable used car that I bought for fairly cheap (sub 5000usd). I pay about 82 dollars a year for registration, and 85 dollars a month (with a good DMV history) for insurance. I spend around 1200 dollars on maintenance a year generally, but it has been as low as 500 a year. So, 2400-2900 a year after the initial purchase. It's more expensive than some places -- but not ourageous. Licensing is a lot cheaper than Japan, at least.
      - fomine3 5y ago
        Insurance seems to very high compared to Japan. With good history, 35yr old, and having Prius, unlimited insurance with car insurance takes below $300/yr. Tax is high here. $330/yr (after 2yr) and $210/2yr (after 5yr).
fortylove 5y ago
>Bullitt bakfiet with multiple air conditioners in the front "box" Isn't that a festool vacuum (like a shopvac), with festool tool boxes on top?
- markkanof 5y ago
  It absolutely is. So those boxes all connect together, which would help keep them from falling out.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
aidenn0 5y ago
This is unreadable on my phone
throw7 5y ago
Exactly. I support banning e-bikes (and anything with a motor) from barely existent bicycle/pedestrian paths/infrastructure. E-bikes can simply use the current beautifully supported motorized roadways.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  This is a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons. Thankfully, it'll never happen.
icameron 5y ago
I am an amateur e-biker. Luckily I live in a city with bikeshare so I don’t have to own one, I just rent it for my commute. 5 miles each way. It takes half the time as public transit used to. Before the bike share I would waste at least 90 minutes a day waiting for and commuting on public transit. Now it’s no more than 24 minutes door to door each way. I get mild exercise, and it’s fun! I still own a non e-bike (fat tire mountain bike) and I am in the 10-15 MPH range with that, plus it makes me sweat and be out of breath. The small difference of e-assist puts me in the 15-20 MPH range, and as described in the article it’s a night-and-day difference. I feel safe and assured, confident, like on a motorcycle. Almost can keep up with traffic. I don't identify as a cyclist like many of the true bike commuters in the area, but I often pass them on the bike routes. I try to be friendly, but I’m smoking them with my rental bike in my street clothes for 20 cents per minute. Today I got cursed out by a spandexed “real biker” as I passed by with my electric whirrrr. It really feels great to ride these bikes. What a time to be alive!
- unicornporn 5y ago
  > Today I got cursed out by a spandexed “real biker” as I passed by with my electric whirrrr. So, a motorbike a passes a human powered vehicle? That should come as no surprise to neither of you. :) To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike. An 8 km ride takes 20 minutes at 15 MPH. At 20 MPH it's 15 minutes. You'd add 5 minutes off your ride and get some proper exercise. As a reference, my grandmother rode her bike 12 miles to school and then back at the age of 10. E-bikes make a lot of sense for longer rides with cargo bikes packed kids, trash, food and whatnot.
  - oliwarner 5y ago
    > I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do Sweat. I do 2km twice a day for the school run in my unassisted mtb. On anything but a cold day, I work up a mild sweat. I wouldn't want to arrive at work in the state I get back in on a warm day. Many commuters don't want to get "proper exercise" on the way to work. Hard enough getting secure bike storage, let alone a shower.
nickysielicki 5y ago
Fortnine made an excellent argument against the safety of ebikes, worth watching as a rebuttal to this article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI
- larard 5y ago
  The "e-bike" in that is clocked as hitting a max of 60km/hr during the test. That's not an e-bike to my mind.
chrisfosterelli 5y ago
> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the road awareness. Most "serious" cyclists in my area generally behave pretty well, or at least when they're breaking the law they are usually doing it in a way that has manageable risk to them (I'm not approving it, but I understand it's calculated), while I've seen a lot of ebike riders do some phenomenally dangerous things because they just didn't realize it was dangerous. I don't necessarily blame the ebikes for this -- I just think riding on "car-dominated roads" requires some experience rather than just more speed. Ebikes aren't a replacement for safe infrastructure.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  This is something i'm also concerned with when it comes to electric vehicles. I don't necessarily think the average 4000 lbs family sedan should be doing 0-60 in 3 seconds.
- FemmeAndroid 5y ago
  Yeah. I agree with this. I tend to be very law abiding. And I think e-bikes enable me to be more willing to come to complete stops, and generally follow traffic laws than most bike riders I know. But I’d definitely acknowledge that a lot of e-bike riders seem to be engaging in risky behavior, quite possibly without realizing the risk.
  - chrisfosterelli 5y ago
    That's a good point about stops. Starting off on an ebike is so much easier haha. > I tend to be very law abiding. Same. I've always tried quite hard to follow the letter of the law on my bike; it seems every counter example is otherwise held against cyclists as a whole. I'm hesitant to criticize ebikes as I do think they're a net good. More people biking is better for everyone.
russellbeattie 5y ago
The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. Before ebikes, you either rode a bicycle, or moved up to a motorscooter or motorcycle, which are much more regulated. The problem is, ebikes are stealth motorscooters. They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. I just started riding motorcycles and you are told that you should ride as if you are invisible, and it's totally true. Ebikes, however, are even worse. You're still going 30, 40 or more and yet, you're even less visible to traffic and less protected should something go wrong. This is going to be a huge issue as these things get more popular. Which they will be. My son and I are getting really into ebikes and e-dirtbikes and e-motorcycles. We're building our third right now [1]. They really are a totally new and interesting area which, like how Tesla changed perceptions of electric cars, ebikes are going to do the same with two wheeled vehicles. For those of us in temperate areas like California, it might represent a real fundamental shift in how we all commute. Laws are going to need to be changed quickly. For those of you interested, definitely start looking at all the activity around ebikes and e-motorbikes online [2]. There's a quickly growing community of enthusiasts who are building their own bikes from scratch, modding/upgrading their off-the-shelf bikes, converting old dirtbikes and more. It really feels like we're at a tipping point. Even HN has had several articles about it in as many days, even though I think most of the articles and conversation really missed the point: Ebikes are a 10x innovation and we should really be thinking of what that will mean. 1. https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ 2. https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/ https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  > They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. Not really? Class 1 and 2 ebikes in the US top out at 20 mph. Ebikes in Europe usually top out at 25 km/h (15.5 mph). Even 20 mph is achievable by a moderately fit person on a road bike for a sustained period of time.
  - russellbeattie 5y ago
quickthrower2 5y ago
In Sydney it’s just too treacherous to cycle, and the risk of injury is too high to me to make it worth it. In addition there are places where bikes are massively inconvenienced vs cars. The classic example is the (I’d guess) 6 story flight of stairs to walk your bike up to use the harbour bridge. There are other examples like this, around bridges. These add a lot of time and sweat to a commute making it more convenient to drive or eat a train or bus. Cycling for pleasure, if you drive to the right places, is still possible.
- fy20 5y ago
  We will be moving to a house in the suburbs next year, and then we probably will get a cargo bike, as there we will have space to safely store it and the roads are better for cycling than the city centre. Bikes also need a good amount of infrastructure, and most cities do not have that right now. Given its usually car drivers that pay taxes for roads (either a direct road tax or through fuel) it not really a suprise that they are designed for them.
  - slyall 5y ago
    I would suggest you take a close you at how much you local governments spend on roads vs how much they bring in via road/fuel taxes. In most places the cost of roads (especially local roads) is being partially covered by general taxes. Where I live is it around 50%.
    - mrep 5y ago
      I calculated this out 2 months ago: The US spent 416 billion dollars on roads in 2014 [1]. At 123 billion gallons of gas [2] and 44 billion gallons of diesel [3], that would require $2.50 worth of tax per gallon. Gas near me is $3.40 with a 60 cent tax so $1.90 short or 24%. [0]: https://terrapass.com/product/personal-carbon-offset-grouped https://terrapass.com/product/personal-carbon-offset-grouped [1]: https://www.bidnet.com/resources/business-insights/us-government-spending-highway-infrastructure-en.jsp#:~:text=The%20federal%20contribution%20amounted%20to,local%20roads%2C%20bridges%20and%20tunnels https://www.bidnet.com/resources/business-insights/us-govern... [2]: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20about%20123.73%20billion,8.05%20million%20barrels%20per%20day https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10#:~:text=In... [3]: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20distillate%20fuel%20consumption,122%20million%20gallons%20per%20day https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diese...
aeternum 5y ago
This sounds great in theory, but I don't find it convincing. Motorcyclists say the same thing about speed being a benefit and maybe it is in some cases, but if you look at the stats, the faster the bike, the more likely you will die. Speeding is a factor in 32% of fatalities. I'd be surprised if it's significantly different on an e-bike.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  There's a pretty big difference between going 20 mph vs going 60 or whatever on a motorcycle.
  - chemeng 5y ago
    Definitely. Though I feel that many people may not know that the probability of a fatality in cyclist/pedestrian accidents increases dramatically between 20-30mph, and I certainly see a lot of ebikers doing 25mph+ in crowded areas that would be 12-15mph if not assisted.
  - jonpurdy 5y ago
    Also, the stats for cars show that speed increases cause deaths to go up non-linearly, so your chances of dying in an accident are way more than double at 100 vs 50 km/h. I would assume the same about motorcycles and ebikes, but presumably the threshold would be lower due to lack of protection (motorcycle helmet and armour not as safe as a metal shell with airbags). So I wonder where that curve starts to rise up on bicycles and ebikes considering they wear just a bicycle helmet and no armoured clothing usually. (I loved riding ebikes in China (Kunshan) with wide protected lanes that were totally separate from traffic outside of city center (where speeds were low and congestion high, negating they need)).
  - dahart 5y ago
    True, but I still don’t want to hit something going 20 on a bike. There’s a pretty big difference between going 10 and going 20 too. Physics lets us know that 2x the speed of a mass carries 4x the energy, so a 20mph crash does 4x the damage of a 10mph crash. I’ve had a bike crash into rocks at under 20mph that could have killed me were it not for a helmet and padding. (I did not walk away unscathed, years later I can still feel the injury to my shoulder…) Crashing at 60 on a motorcycle is pretty likely to kill you. Crashing going 20 on a bike might break bones - as long as you hit something stationary, rather than throw yourself in front of a car doing 40. Crashing at 10 mph and you might be able to jump off or walk away with only scratches. It’s also fun to think about how crashing at 1000 mph is not that much more likely to kill you than crashing at 60 mph on a motorcycle. At some point, the speed is enough to do all of the damage.
soheil 5y ago
So many cringe statements in this post I'm not going to reference them here. One note which I think is missed often with heavy electric cargo bikes is a simple equation, used in car collisions to determine safety requirements. F = 0.5 mv^2 The electric nature of these bikes makes them go faster than regular bikes so the force in case of an accident is increased by the square of increase in velocity. Add the increased mass of these cargo bikes and the force on impact is very large. It's very surprising there is no regulation on use of these bikes on normal bike lanes or sidewalks which I see often in places like San Francisco.
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  I'd be surprised if it makes that much of a difference on impact, since the differential with a car doesn't change much. What will hurt is whether the brakes are sufficient to stop that mass, which naive conversions have. That makes the difference between stopping in time or not.
  - soheil 5y ago
    I meant these fast/heavy bikes are a safety risk to pedestrians not cars.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
LeonidasXIV 5y ago
I appreciate the fact that e-bikes are bringing biking to the masses. I really do. But from this post I also read a lot of coping, because your cycling infrastructure is bad. Like the speed argument is completely bogus if you wouldn't need to cycle next to cars that are going that fast. If you had separated bike lanes, maybe not even attached to streets. Proper bike infrastructure is what gets people to bike, e-bikes get more people to bike. So yes, it is absolutely great that more people are on the road on an e-bike, now more people can demand their taxes to be invested in proper bike infrastructure helping both e-bike and regular bike riders.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Are e-bikes bringing biking to the masses? At least here in the UK it seems that standard cycling is very common among ordinary people (and a basic bike can be bought for £50-£100). Whereas e-bikes are mainly owned by the relatively wealthy as they sell for upwards of £1000.
  - mft_ 5y ago
    My observation is that ebikes broaden the group of cyclists to people who (for example) might otherwise consider themselves too unfit or elderly, or who would be put off cycling due to living in a hilly area, etc. They also broaden the times a bike is used vs. some other mode of transport - for example commuting for people who would not want to arrive at work wringing in sweat and in need of a shower, or carrying heavier loads, or towing a child to school in a trailer over a longer distance, etc.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      They don't do anything against rain and snow.
      - Fricken 5y ago
        Might I suggest clothing? There is clothing available now that can be used to protect our frail, naked bodies against the punishing elements.
mrfusion 5y ago
Bike paths would have been a great thing to put in the infrastructure bill instead of all the special interests and pork. What a missed opportunity.
- d0gsg0w00f 5y ago
  I'm going to make a wild guess that there are more pork eaters than cyclists in America. Bike lanes are compicated issues but everyone has to eat. Politicians are always going to make these calculated decisions. I have also observed that the quickest way to fire up an angry mob is to say something perceived to be critical of cyclists.
  - Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
    Pork doesn't mean literal pork- in fact, as far as I know the infrastructure bill doesn't spend a cent on subsidies to pig, or any other, farming, though it does include improvements to rural roads, water supplies and broadband which will help farmers. Pork, short for "pork-barrel politics", is a US term originating in the 19th century which refers to the practice of spending money in a legislator's district to get their support.
- notacoward 5y ago
  More funding for bike paths would have been great, but what would you have cut to get it? I kind of like things like water I can drink and bridges that don't fall down. This bill was hard enough to pass as it is. Trying to add funding for bike paths would have been difficult because (a) right-of-way issues tend to make them hideously expensive relative to the constituencies they serve and (b) that constituency tends to be more liberal than the fence-sitters were. Even those who aren't in the pocket of the fossil-fuel industry like Manchin still had to satisfy their own constituents who are more oriented toward giant pickups and SUVs than bikes. Proponents needed to attract votes, not drive them away. Yes, it's a missed opportunity, but no bill at all would have been an even bigger one.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
notacoward 5y ago
Some good points, but the focus seems to be on e-bikes vs. cars. I rarely see any opposition to e-bikes from drivers. The push-back mostly comes from regular cyclists and pedestrians, and those interactions are hardly addressed. Personally, I think putting e-bikes on paths already suffering from contention among cyclists and pedestrians is not something the stewards of those facilities should approve by default. If a particular path can support it, that's great. I wish more did. But I've also seen a bad situation become worse because of e-bikes on trails that were already at or over capacity. "Better than cars" isn't enough.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  A lot of drivers just hate bikes in general, not specifically ebikes.
leoedin 5y ago
I put a relatively low power (250W) mid-drive conversion kit on my commuter bike last year, along with a decent front rack and a child seat for my 18 month year old. It's incredibly useful for doing short journeys. The motor doesn't make the bike any quicker than a normal bike, but it makes hills a breeze and removes that "can I be bothered" feeling from cycling. If I'm feeling more energetic I drop the assist down to 0 or 1 and it turns into a regular cycle ride. If I'm feeling lazy I blast it to max. There's a lot of negativity around ebikes here, but I think they're heralding a revolution in city transport. Cycling is a great way to get around, but if you're tired or hungry or going uphill it can be a chore. Ebikes remove all that drudgery, and enable people to ride much heavier cargo bikes. Anecdotally I've seen absolutely loads of people riding cargo bikes in my part of London over the last year - way more than ever before. Bikes like the Tern GSD or the Bakfiets can carry multiple kids or a full food shop uphill with minimal effort. They are actually more useful than a car in a lot of situations. Once I have a secure place to store it, I'm seriously considering getting a long tail cargo bike like the Radwagon or Tern GSD soon. Driving is so much effort compared to a bike.
- hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
  i have a long tail cargo, non-electric, Yuba Sweet Curry. It is awesome, the kids go on the back and have a blast. Way better than a three wheel cargo bike. Much lighter and can pop up on the footpath.
hstaab 5y ago
Just here to point out the bike carrying “Air Conditioners” is actually carrying carpentry tools. Sort of funny if you know the Festool brand as they’re considered very premium.
- rdubz 5y ago
  Thank you, fixed! https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/8e5885de3341ca1b762728b6b6515be54ae077be https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/8e5885...
o_____________o 5y ago
Related: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://reddit.com/r/notjustbikes https://reddit.com/r/notjustbikes
kumarsw 5y ago
Something I've been wondering is in what region(s) Ebikes are becoming popular - it seems to be mostly the UK, East Asia, and maybe some larger coastal US cities. Hopefully this will (in the US) lead to cities taking the idea of low-speed vehicles more seriously, which are a good fit for medium-density US cities with room for putting in grade-separated paths. For a bonkers example of how it isn't all that hard in moderately wealthy US new development, see Tom Scott's video "The City of Golf Carts" [1] which describes the Atlanta suburb of Peachtree. [1] https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM
- Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
  They've become very popular in the Netherlands- IIRC more than half of new bike sales there are of ebikes.
pjmlp 5y ago
My problem with the cost is that it is still cheaper to get a 125 cc scooter than a proper E-Bike.
rdubz 5y ago
Hi, I'm the site creator, just saw this posted! Happy to field questions. The site is due for an update, I've been compiling a lot more resources and bolstering some of the arguments with more data, but lately I've been spending a lot of time on these cyclist PoV videos https://twitter.com/CarsDontFitJC https://twitter.com/CarsDontFitJC To briefly touch on a few common q's I see cropping up here: - Yes, cycling infrastructure is really bad everywhere in the US (some places worse than others). That's orthogonal to most of the things that are great about e-bikes though. Better infra, and more e-bikes, are both part of fixing the US's horribly broken urban transportation landscapes. - "Rain and snow": it's just not that hard to make biking reasonable in all but the most inclement weather, and anyway, solving {traffic, parking, traffic violence, air pollution, noise pollution, emissions} on the other ≈95% of the days would be extremely good for everyone (including drivers). Making everyone wear a "$40k internal combustion parka" everywhere is not a good solution either! I really appreciate the thoughtful feedback and discussion I have some related projects with cool software angles I am hoping to post here as well, soon™
r00fus 5y ago
The main problem I see with bike ascendancy is the theft issue. E-bikes seem to exacerbate this issue (they're definitely more expensive thus juicier targets) but perhaps some basic ability to remotely lock & brick the bike (a la Apple's Lost Mode/remote wipe) might prove useful to start deterring thefts. Ultimately, law enforcement need to start paying attention to bike thefts (ie, we need a "grand theft auto" type infraction). Not sure how this happens.
m000 5y ago
If good infrastructure is in place, like it happens in the Netherlands, e-bikes are not all upsides. From personal experience, I have identified a few problems. (a) speed = reduced reaction time. No more riding with your headphones on ---that's pretty safe and common to do in the Netherlands--- as you need all your senses on alert to react on any road emergency. (b) speed = less excercise for short-midrange routes. Your 20' bicycle ride to work becomes a 12' e-bike ride, and requires less effort. (c) speed = more room to be an asshat. Most e-bike riders behave, but as more and more youngsters can afford an e-bike, things change. Worse, youngsters often go for those heavy, fat-tire e-bikes that are just as dangerous to crash with as a regular moped. And just wait until those become popular with the (already annoying) bicycle-riding tourists. But to be fair, an e-bike can also pay of its purchase within a year in cities with high rent prices. This includes Amsterdam.

107 points by olivernyc 5y ago

tromp 5y ago

> Cargo bike carrying three children and their bikes Count again:-)

rdubz 5y ago
Haha, good catch, fixed! https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/dad5ac5a83a5806b8f47a367f179e07b8536f64a#diff-b8446c38be67a9a999cd980ee4599ccd7d780024ba39175778b171cf6f2a3d6dR139 https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/dad5ac... Did that via Gitbook WYSIWYG editor, not sure what all those other changes are about, hopefully didn't break anything

hammock 5y ago

I ride an ebike every day. In Chicago they are very prevalent on every other block as part of the bike share system (so no need to worry about storage, theft, recharging or maintenance), and for 15 cents a minute it has become my main form of transportation.

bbarn 5y ago
e-bikes replaced the Divvy system? Wow, I've only been gone two years and I never saw one then.
- ryanchants 5y ago
  No, Divvy has e-bikes as well now.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

MivLives 5y ago

One thing that's concerned me about ebikes is helmets. I ride one that can pretty easily handle 25, and if a person is using an old helmet from preMIPs, or has been through a crash that's not going to offer enough protection at those speeds. You need snell, or dot or something certified for faster speeds.

Gigachad 5y ago

IMO, the number one hurdle for ebikes is theft. The things cost a decent chunk of money and there is basically no way to secure them properly. I have owned an ebike and it's such a fun way to get around, but I quickly sold it because I was in constant fear of it being stolen. And shortly after, one of my cheap non ebikes was stolen while locked inside my apartments bike storage area. I think electric scooters might have a bigger impact on transport as they are easier to store inside.

presentation 5y ago
As evidenced by the fact that ebikes are wildly popular in Japan where theft is minimal (most people have nothing more than a wheel lock)
stephc_int13 5y ago
There is clearly a pain point in need of an innovative solution, might be a sizeable market.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  Folding bike :)
- Gigachad 5y ago
  HN will hate this but the solution is likely to serial number every part on the bike and software lock it down so if you take a battery or something from one bike, it becomes bricked when you stick it in another bike. This would get hard with non electronic parts like wheels though.
  - wyre 5y ago
    That wouldn’t eliminate theft but it would only make it worse for the consumer.
    - convolvatron 5y ago
      you should see what's happening to rental ebikes and scooters in SF. I've got a giant pile of hub bldc motors and battery packs I've picked up off the street that the scrappers left. all of those had gps and were ostensibly only unlockable with the service. I don't see any way the rental company is going to stop that. its certainly not like the police here are going to be anything but abusive if you called them about a bike or scooter that you left out for anyone to get at.

ambivalents 5y ago

I am excited by e-bikes and love riding them, but I'm not nearly as bullish. If you're single living in a bike-friendly city, sure. But I and many others have moved out of cities and often have to transport more than just our own bodies around. Roughly 80% of my rides include my dog (I take him to the park, to day care, to family outings, etc.), and I also appreciate the car as a second informal storage space - climbing shoes, first aid kit, and the like. Basically, ebikes are great when you don't need much anything else besides your self.

authed 5y ago
> in a bike-friendly city also, many bike friendly paths don't allow electric bikes (sometimes not enforced and it will probably change in the future though)
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Is this still really that common?
  - authed 5y ago
    I don't know how common it is, but I have seen this on a multi-use trail system in Florida.
  - MivLives 5y ago
    Legally in the Boston area nothing with a motor is supposed to go on bike paths. It was a law put in place in the 80s to prevent people on mopeds from using bike paths. The end result is rarely enforced from my own experience and from what I've heard from the local electric skateboard group there.
    - SamWhited 5y ago
      I don't know about Boston in particular, but in a lot of places these laws only apply to class 2 ebikes (ones with a throttle). Pedal assist often doesn't count, even though it's got a motor too.

ezfe 5y ago

It is not accurate to use $40,000 as the amount of money needed to get a car. A good new car can be purchased for half that, not to mention the used car market.

tcoff91 5y ago
Car insurance, gas, maintenance, oil changes, tires, etc… Total cost of ownership of a car is really high
- londons_explore 5y ago
  I think this must be a US phenomenon. My used car in the UK costs me about $600/year plus $0.14/mile (including fuel, taxes, inspections, maintenance, depreciation, parking, insurance). And that's in a country with ~$0.09/mile in fuel taxes. Granted this is not the average cost of car ownership but a car chosen for low total ownership cost.
  - serf 5y ago
    >I think this must be a US phenomenon. >a car chosen for low total ownership cost. I own and drive a car that I bought with the intention of owning and maintaining cheaply, too. I am fairly anal about maintenance, so the costs associated with that are actually inflated from what they could be. I live in Southern California, apparently a very expensive place to be. I own a reliable used car that I bought for fairly cheap (sub 5000usd). I pay about 82 dollars a year for registration, and 85 dollars a month (with a good DMV history) for insurance. I spend around 1200 dollars on maintenance a year generally, but it has been as low as 500 a year. So, 2400-2900 a year after the initial purchase. It's more expensive than some places -- but not ourageous. Licensing is a lot cheaper than Japan, at least.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Insurance seems to very high compared to Japan. With good history, 35yr old, and having Prius, unlimited insurance with car insurance takes below $300/yr. Tax is high here. $330/yr (after 2yr) and $210/2yr (after 5yr).

fortylove 5y ago

>Bullitt bakfiet with multiple air conditioners in the front "box" Isn't that a festool vacuum (like a shopvac), with festool tool boxes on top?

markkanof 5y ago
It absolutely is. So those boxes all connect together, which would help keep them from falling out.
deleted 5y ago
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aidenn0 5y ago

This is unreadable on my phone

throw7 5y ago

Exactly. I support banning e-bikes (and anything with a motor) from barely existent bicycle/pedestrian paths/infrastructure. E-bikes can simply use the current beautifully supported motorized roadways.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
This is a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons. Thankfully, it'll never happen.

icameron 5y ago

I am an amateur e-biker. Luckily I live in a city with bikeshare so I don’t have to own one, I just rent it for my commute. 5 miles each way. It takes half the time as public transit used to. Before the bike share I would waste at least 90 minutes a day waiting for and commuting on public transit. Now it’s no more than 24 minutes door to door each way. I get mild exercise, and it’s fun! I still own a non e-bike (fat tire mountain bike) and I am in the 10-15 MPH range with that, plus it makes me sweat and be out of breath. The small difference of e-assist puts me in the 15-20 MPH range, and as described in the article it’s a night-and-day difference. I feel safe and assured, confident, like on a motorcycle. Almost can keep up with traffic. I don't identify as a cyclist like many of the true bike commuters in the area, but I often pass them on the bike routes. I try to be friendly, but I’m smoking them with my rental bike in my street clothes for 20 cents per minute. Today I got cursed out by a spandexed “real biker” as I passed by with my electric whirrrr. It really feels great to ride these bikes. What a time to be alive!

unicornporn 5y ago
> Today I got cursed out by a spandexed “real biker” as I passed by with my electric whirrrr. So, a motorbike a passes a human powered vehicle? That should come as no surprise to neither of you. :) To be honest, I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do. Getting up to 15 MPH when you're riding for 8 km in a city when stopping for lights should be no problem without disabilities on a decent bike. An 8 km ride takes 20 minutes at 15 MPH. At 20 MPH it's 15 minutes. You'd add 5 minutes off your ride and get some proper exercise. As a reference, my grandmother rode her bike 12 miles to school and then back at the age of 10. E-bikes make a lot of sense for longer rides with cargo bikes packed kids, trash, food and whatnot.
- oliwarner 5y ago
  > I don't get the appeal of e-bikes for the type of riding you do Sweat. I do 2km twice a day for the school run in my unassisted mtb. On anything but a cold day, I work up a mild sweat. I wouldn't want to arrive at work in the state I get back in on a warm day. Many commuters don't want to get "proper exercise" on the way to work. Hard enough getting secure bike storage, let alone a shower.

nickysielicki 5y ago

Fortnine made an excellent argument against the safety of ebikes, worth watching as a rebuttal to this article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI

larard 5y ago
The "e-bike" in that is clocked as hitting a max of 60km/hr during the test. That's not an e-bike to my mind.

chrisfosterelli 5y ago

> Previously, you had to be a serious cyclist to access this speed (and corresponding ability to simply exist on car-dominated roads), but now almost everyone can. Wow, interesting that they frame this as a positive. I'm a general advocate for e-bikes but this has been the absolute biggest drawback I've noticed with them: e-bike riders suddenly get all of the speed of a very fit cyclist but absolutely none of the road awareness. Most "serious" cyclists in my area generally behave pretty well, or at least when they're breaking the law they are usually doing it in a way that has manageable risk to them (I'm not approving it, but I understand it's calculated), while I've seen a lot of ebike riders do some phenomenally dangerous things because they just didn't realize it was dangerous. I don't necessarily blame the ebikes for this -- I just think riding on "car-dominated roads" requires some experience rather than just more speed. Ebikes aren't a replacement for safe infrastructure.

missedthecue 5y ago
This is something i'm also concerned with when it comes to electric vehicles. I don't necessarily think the average 4000 lbs family sedan should be doing 0-60 in 3 seconds.
FemmeAndroid 5y ago
Yeah. I agree with this. I tend to be very law abiding. And I think e-bikes enable me to be more willing to come to complete stops, and generally follow traffic laws than most bike riders I know. But I’d definitely acknowledge that a lot of e-bike riders seem to be engaging in risky behavior, quite possibly without realizing the risk.
- chrisfosterelli 5y ago
  That's a good point about stops. Starting off on an ebike is so much easier haha. > I tend to be very law abiding. Same. I've always tried quite hard to follow the letter of the law on my bike; it seems every counter example is otherwise held against cyclists as a whole. I'm hesitant to criticize ebikes as I do think they're a net good. More people biking is better for everyone.

russellbeattie 5y ago

The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. Before ebikes, you either rode a bicycle, or moved up to a motorscooter or motorcycle, which are much more regulated. The problem is, ebikes are stealth motorscooters. They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. I just started riding motorcycles and you are told that you should ride as if you are invisible, and it's totally true. Ebikes, however, are even worse. You're still going 30, 40 or more and yet, you're even less visible to traffic and less protected should something go wrong. This is going to be a huge issue as these things get more popular. Which they will be. My son and I are getting really into ebikes and e-dirtbikes and e-motorcycles. We're building our third right now [1]. They really are a totally new and interesting area which, like how Tesla changed perceptions of electric cars, ebikes are going to do the same with two wheeled vehicles. For those of us in temperate areas like California, it might represent a real fundamental shift in how we all commute. Laws are going to need to be changed quickly. For those of you interested, definitely start looking at all the activity around ebikes and e-motorbikes online [2]. There's a quickly growing community of enthusiasts who are building their own bikes from scratch, modding/upgrading their off-the-shelf bikes, converting old dirtbikes and more. It really feels like we're at a tipping point. Even HN has had several articles about it in as many days, even though I think most of the articles and conversation really missed the point: Ebikes are a 10x innovation and we should really be thinking of what that will mean. 1. https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CV9vQWcLGIh/ 2. https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/ https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ebikes/

TulliusCicero 5y ago
> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. Not really? Class 1 and 2 ebikes in the US top out at 20 mph. Ebikes in Europe usually top out at 25 km/h (15.5 mph). Even 20 mph is achievable by a moderately fit person on a road bike for a sustained period of time.
- russellbeattie 5y ago

quickthrower2 5y ago

In Sydney it’s just too treacherous to cycle, and the risk of injury is too high to me to make it worth it. In addition there are places where bikes are massively inconvenienced vs cars. The classic example is the (I’d guess) 6 story flight of stairs to walk your bike up to use the harbour bridge. There are other examples like this, around bridges. These add a lot of time and sweat to a commute making it more convenient to drive or eat a train or bus. Cycling for pleasure, if you drive to the right places, is still possible.

fy20 5y ago
We will be moving to a house in the suburbs next year, and then we probably will get a cargo bike, as there we will have space to safely store it and the roads are better for cycling than the city centre. Bikes also need a good amount of infrastructure, and most cities do not have that right now. Given its usually car drivers that pay taxes for roads (either a direct road tax or through fuel) it not really a suprise that they are designed for them.
- slyall 5y ago
  I would suggest you take a close you at how much you local governments spend on roads vs how much they bring in via road/fuel taxes. In most places the cost of roads (especially local roads) is being partially covered by general taxes. Where I live is it around 50%.
  - mrep 5y ago
    I calculated this out 2 months ago: The US spent 416 billion dollars on roads in 2014 [1]. At 123 billion gallons of gas [2] and 44 billion gallons of diesel [3], that would require $2.50 worth of tax per gallon. Gas near me is $3.40 with a 60 cent tax so $1.90 short or 24%. [0]: https://terrapass.com/product/personal-carbon-offset-grouped https://terrapass.com/product/personal-carbon-offset-grouped [1]: https://www.bidnet.com/resources/business-insights/us-government-spending-highway-infrastructure-en.jsp#:~:text=The%20federal%20contribution%20amounted%20to,local%20roads%2C%20bridges%20and%20tunnels https://www.bidnet.com/resources/business-insights/us-govern... [2]: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20about%20123.73%20billion,8.05%20million%20barrels%20per%20day https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10#:~:text=In... [3]: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diesel.php#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20distillate%20fuel%20consumption,122%20million%20gallons%20per%20day https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-diese...

aeternum 5y ago

This sounds great in theory, but I don't find it convincing. Motorcyclists say the same thing about speed being a benefit and maybe it is in some cases, but if you look at the stats, the faster the bike, the more likely you will die. Speeding is a factor in 32% of fatalities. I'd be surprised if it's significantly different on an e-bike.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
There's a pretty big difference between going 20 mph vs going 60 or whatever on a motorcycle.
- chemeng 5y ago
  Definitely. Though I feel that many people may not know that the probability of a fatality in cyclist/pedestrian accidents increases dramatically between 20-30mph, and I certainly see a lot of ebikers doing 25mph+ in crowded areas that would be 12-15mph if not assisted.
- jonpurdy 5y ago
  Also, the stats for cars show that speed increases cause deaths to go up non-linearly, so your chances of dying in an accident are way more than double at 100 vs 50 km/h. I would assume the same about motorcycles and ebikes, but presumably the threshold would be lower due to lack of protection (motorcycle helmet and armour not as safe as a metal shell with airbags). So I wonder where that curve starts to rise up on bicycles and ebikes considering they wear just a bicycle helmet and no armoured clothing usually. (I loved riding ebikes in China (Kunshan) with wide protected lanes that were totally separate from traffic outside of city center (where speeds were low and congestion high, negating they need)).
- dahart 5y ago
  True, but I still don’t want to hit something going 20 on a bike. There’s a pretty big difference between going 10 and going 20 too. Physics lets us know that 2x the speed of a mass carries 4x the energy, so a 20mph crash does 4x the damage of a 10mph crash. I’ve had a bike crash into rocks at under 20mph that could have killed me were it not for a helmet and padding. (I did not walk away unscathed, years later I can still feel the injury to my shoulder…) Crashing at 60 on a motorcycle is pretty likely to kill you. Crashing going 20 on a bike might break bones - as long as you hit something stationary, rather than throw yourself in front of a car doing 40. Crashing at 10 mph and you might be able to jump off or walk away with only scratches. It’s also fun to think about how crashing at 1000 mph is not that much more likely to kill you than crashing at 60 mph on a motorcycle. At some point, the speed is enough to do all of the damage.

soheil 5y ago

So many cringe statements in this post I'm not going to reference them here. One note which I think is missed often with heavy electric cargo bikes is a simple equation, used in car collisions to determine safety requirements. F = 0.5 mv^2 The electric nature of these bikes makes them go faster than regular bikes so the force in case of an accident is increased by the square of increase in velocity. Add the increased mass of these cargo bikes and the force on impact is very large. It's very surprising there is no regulation on use of these bikes on normal bike lanes or sidewalks which I see often in places like San Francisco.

readflaggedcomm 5y ago
I'd be surprised if it makes that much of a difference on impact, since the differential with a car doesn't change much. What will hurt is whether the brakes are sufficient to stop that mass, which naive conversions have. That makes the difference between stopping in time or not.
- soheil 5y ago
  I meant these fast/heavy bikes are a safety risk to pedestrians not cars.
deleted 5y ago
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LeonidasXIV 5y ago

I appreciate the fact that e-bikes are bringing biking to the masses. I really do. But from this post I also read a lot of coping, because your cycling infrastructure is bad. Like the speed argument is completely bogus if you wouldn't need to cycle next to cars that are going that fast. If you had separated bike lanes, maybe not even attached to streets. Proper bike infrastructure is what gets people to bike, e-bikes get more people to bike. So yes, it is absolutely great that more people are on the road on an e-bike, now more people can demand their taxes to be invested in proper bike infrastructure helping both e-bike and regular bike riders.

nicoburns 5y ago
Are e-bikes bringing biking to the masses? At least here in the UK it seems that standard cycling is very common among ordinary people (and a basic bike can be bought for £50-£100). Whereas e-bikes are mainly owned by the relatively wealthy as they sell for upwards of £1000.
- mft_ 5y ago
  My observation is that ebikes broaden the group of cyclists to people who (for example) might otherwise consider themselves too unfit or elderly, or who would be put off cycling due to living in a hilly area, etc. They also broaden the times a bike is used vs. some other mode of transport - for example commuting for people who would not want to arrive at work wringing in sweat and in need of a shower, or carrying heavier loads, or towing a child to school in a trailer over a longer distance, etc.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    They don't do anything against rain and snow.
    - Fricken 5y ago
      Might I suggest clothing? There is clothing available now that can be used to protect our frail, naked bodies against the punishing elements.

mrfusion 5y ago

Bike paths would have been a great thing to put in the infrastructure bill instead of all the special interests and pork. What a missed opportunity.

d0gsg0w00f 5y ago
I'm going to make a wild guess that there are more pork eaters than cyclists in America. Bike lanes are compicated issues but everyone has to eat. Politicians are always going to make these calculated decisions. I have also observed that the quickest way to fire up an angry mob is to say something perceived to be critical of cyclists.
- Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
  Pork doesn't mean literal pork- in fact, as far as I know the infrastructure bill doesn't spend a cent on subsidies to pig, or any other, farming, though it does include improvements to rural roads, water supplies and broadband which will help farmers. Pork, short for "pork-barrel politics", is a US term originating in the 19th century which refers to the practice of spending money in a legislator's district to get their support.
notacoward 5y ago
More funding for bike paths would have been great, but what would you have cut to get it? I kind of like things like water I can drink and bridges that don't fall down. This bill was hard enough to pass as it is. Trying to add funding for bike paths would have been difficult because (a) right-of-way issues tend to make them hideously expensive relative to the constituencies they serve and (b) that constituency tends to be more liberal than the fence-sitters were. Even those who aren't in the pocket of the fossil-fuel industry like Manchin still had to satisfy their own constituents who are more oriented toward giant pickups and SUVs than bikes. Proponents needed to attract votes, not drive them away. Yes, it's a missed opportunity, but no bill at all would have been an even bigger one.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

notacoward 5y ago

Some good points, but the focus seems to be on e-bikes vs. cars. I rarely see any opposition to e-bikes from drivers. The push-back mostly comes from regular cyclists and pedestrians, and those interactions are hardly addressed. Personally, I think putting e-bikes on paths already suffering from contention among cyclists and pedestrians is not something the stewards of those facilities should approve by default. If a particular path can support it, that's great. I wish more did. But I've also seen a bad situation become worse because of e-bikes on trails that were already at or over capacity. "Better than cars" isn't enough.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
A lot of drivers just hate bikes in general, not specifically ebikes.

leoedin 5y ago

I put a relatively low power (250W) mid-drive conversion kit on my commuter bike last year, along with a decent front rack and a child seat for my 18 month year old. It's incredibly useful for doing short journeys. The motor doesn't make the bike any quicker than a normal bike, but it makes hills a breeze and removes that "can I be bothered" feeling from cycling. If I'm feeling more energetic I drop the assist down to 0 or 1 and it turns into a regular cycle ride. If I'm feeling lazy I blast it to max. There's a lot of negativity around ebikes here, but I think they're heralding a revolution in city transport. Cycling is a great way to get around, but if you're tired or hungry or going uphill it can be a chore. Ebikes remove all that drudgery, and enable people to ride much heavier cargo bikes. Anecdotally I've seen absolutely loads of people riding cargo bikes in my part of London over the last year - way more than ever before. Bikes like the Tern GSD or the Bakfiets can carry multiple kids or a full food shop uphill with minimal effort. They are actually more useful than a car in a lot of situations. Once I have a secure place to store it, I'm seriously considering getting a long tail cargo bike like the Radwagon or Tern GSD soon. Driving is so much effort compared to a bike.

hazza_n_dazza 5y ago
i have a long tail cargo, non-electric, Yuba Sweet Curry. It is awesome, the kids go on the back and have a blast. Way better than a three wheel cargo bike. Much lighter and can pop up on the footpath.

hstaab 5y ago

Just here to point out the bike carrying “Air Conditioners” is actually carrying carpentry tools. Sort of funny if you know the Festool brand as they’re considered very premium.

rdubz 5y ago
Thank you, fixed! https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/8e5885de3341ca1b762728b6b6515be54ae077be https://github.com/neighbor-ryan/ebike-gitbook/commit/8e5885...

o_____________o 5y ago

Related: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://reddit.com/r/notjustbikes https://reddit.com/r/notjustbikes

kumarsw 5y ago

Something I've been wondering is in what region(s) Ebikes are becoming popular - it seems to be mostly the UK, East Asia, and maybe some larger coastal US cities. Hopefully this will (in the US) lead to cities taking the idea of low-speed vehicles more seriously, which are a good fit for medium-density US cities with room for putting in grade-separated paths. For a bonkers example of how it isn't all that hard in moderately wealthy US new development, see Tom Scott's video "The City of Golf Carts" [1] which describes the Atlanta suburb of Peachtree. [1] https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM

Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
They've become very popular in the Netherlands- IIRC more than half of new bike sales there are of ebikes.

pjmlp 5y ago

My problem with the cost is that it is still cheaper to get a 125 cc scooter than a proper E-Bike.

rdubz 5y ago

Hi, I'm the site creator, just saw this posted! Happy to field questions. The site is due for an update, I've been compiling a lot more resources and bolstering some of the arguments with more data, but lately I've been spending a lot of time on these cyclist PoV videos https://twitter.com/CarsDontFitJC https://twitter.com/CarsDontFitJC To briefly touch on a few common q's I see cropping up here: - Yes, cycling infrastructure is really bad everywhere in the US (some places worse than others). That's orthogonal to most of the things that are great about e-bikes though. Better infra, and more e-bikes, are both part of fixing the US's horribly broken urban transportation landscapes. - "Rain and snow": it's just not that hard to make biking reasonable in all but the most inclement weather, and anyway, solving {traffic, parking, traffic violence, air pollution, noise pollution, emissions} on the other ≈95% of the days would be extremely good for everyone (including drivers). Making everyone wear a "$40k internal combustion parka" everywhere is not a good solution either! I really appreciate the thoughtful feedback and discussion I have some related projects with cool software angles I am hoping to post here as well, soon™

r00fus 5y ago

The main problem I see with bike ascendancy is the theft issue. E-bikes seem to exacerbate this issue (they're definitely more expensive thus juicier targets) but perhaps some basic ability to remotely lock & brick the bike (a la Apple's Lost Mode/remote wipe) might prove useful to start deterring thefts. Ultimately, law enforcement need to start paying attention to bike thefts (ie, we need a "grand theft auto" type infraction). Not sure how this happens.

m000 5y ago

If good infrastructure is in place, like it happens in the Netherlands, e-bikes are not all upsides. From personal experience, I have identified a few problems. (a) speed = reduced reaction time. No more riding with your headphones on ---that's pretty safe and common to do in the Netherlands--- as you need all your senses on alert to react on any road emergency. (b) speed = less excercise for short-midrange routes. Your 20' bicycle ride to work becomes a 12' e-bike ride, and requires less effort. (c) speed = more room to be an asshat. Most e-bike riders behave, but as more and more youngsters can afford an e-bike, things change. Worse, youngsters often go for those heavy, fat-tire e-bikes that are just as dangerous to crash with as a regular moped. And just wait until those become popular with the (already annoying) bicycle-riding tourists. But to be fair, an e-bike can also pay of its purchase within a year in cities with high rent prices. This includes Amsterdam.