10 ms·

People exposed to lead in Flint, Mich., water will get a $626M settlement

145 points by authed 5y ago

drumhead 5y ago
This level of negligence merits custodial sentences, not just a financial settlement.
- gruez 5y ago
  That's pursued via the criminal courts, and is largely independent of the civil courts (which deals with monetary settlements). edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Criminal_prosecutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Criminal_pr...
crooked-v 5y ago
With a population of about 95,000 (circa 2020), and assuming 50% of that goes to the lawyers, that's about $3,294 per person.
- advisedwang 5y ago
  > The deal makes money available to every Flint child who was exposed to the water, every adult who can show an injury, certain business owners and anyone who paid water bills. After you subtract own money going to non-local property owners like large coporations, and then average out, yes.
  - rhizome 5y ago
    All you have to do is send a request letter of no more than three hundred words to [address] by December 1, 2021. Envelopes must be #11 and the requestor's address must be centered on the back over the seam of the flap in a typeface no larger than 14pt. The front of the envelope should have [address] and a stamp. Any other markings or creases on the envelope will void the request.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    Me and family were poisoned a few years ago, severe negligence by a rental company. Probably half a million in medical bills so far and counting. Insurance covered most of it. One thing we leaned is doctors have zero interest in helping you to show injuries or claims. Something like posion is outside their domain. They treat symptoms and want nothing to do with you as person. Claim forms send them running. Was functionally blind and stuck in bed for a year. No doctor would fill out paperwork. Disability literally just laughed at me. By the time we got lawyers involved we started hitting deadlines for suing. So now layers have zero interest. Unless it’s a very clear thing like “piano fell on head” your going to have a rough time getting justice.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      > They treat symptoms and want nothing to do with you as person. Claim forms send them running. They treat medical problems, not legal ones.
      - sophacles 5y ago
        They treat medical problems by causing legal ones would be a far more accurate statement.
      - treeman79 5y ago
        Family almost became homeless because they didn’t want to fill out forms. I absolutely would have died due to loss of coverage.
- Pxtl 5y ago
  Ouch. I'd like to think "not having lead poisoning" would be worth a bit more than that.
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    Not to sound callous but maybe they incorporate future expecting earnings of someone living in Flint, MI in their calculations somehow. EDIT: I know there is a rule against discussing downvotes, but this is a factual statement and the notion that this comment isn't relevant or doesn't enhance the conversation (for anyone who downvoted me) is an affront to any semblance of being capable of reasonable discourse in civil society - any downvoters should really reflect on what makes you feel like a statement made by a poster is actually what the poster thinks may or may not be right vs. your feelings of the post upsetting you.
    - thebooktocome 5y ago
      Wow, yeah, that sounds pretty callous.
    - gruez 5y ago
      Yeah, that's the point of the legal system. Even though the non-callous thing would be to treat life/health as priceless, you can't really be giving the victims infinity dollars for their suffering.
      - dontbeevil1992 5y ago
        surely there's some middle ground between infinity and a paltry $3500. in our legal system there are concepts like damages, emotional damages, pain and suffering. it's not just about how much wages you missed out on. or does all that just go out the window because these are members of society who aren't paid a lot for their labor?
        loonster 5y ago
        The problem is it's a class action against the government that the people elected. The victims are both the petitioner and the defendant. Regardless of the amount paid, the only beneficiaries are the lawyers.
- njovin 5y ago
  And it's being paid by the state, presumably in no small part by tax dollars the victims themselves contributed to state funds. It's a slap in the face all around.
  - madengr 5y ago
    Who’s it supposed to be paid by?
    - teawrecks 5y ago
      Insurance
      - loonster 5y ago
        The premiums are paid by the government. No sorry that doesn't shift the cost to anyone else.
        Retric 5y ago
        Premiums and payouts are very separate pools of money. Life insurance payouts for example can in theory be consistently be larger than premiums.
    - loonster 5y ago
      The people that were ultimately responsible. Which I would argue is the voters. It's a neat trick. Lawyers take 600m out of the voters back pocket, hand back 400m, and the people rejoice.
      - gruez 5y ago
        >It's a neat trick. Lawyers take 600m out of the voters back pocket, hand back 400m, and the people rejoice. and that's fine, because you're not taking $60 out of everyone's pocket and giving back $40, they're taking $60 out of everyone's pocket and giving $4000 to the people affected. The point of the lawsuit is to force redistributing wealth to compensate the people affected, not as some sort of money-maker.
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  Attorneys have been seeking as much as $200 million in legal fees from the $626 million settlement. -TFA
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Better than some class-action settlement splits, I suppose.
    - jandrese 5y ago
      It also depends on how strict the claim process is. Do they need a signed doctors note from 2014 to take part or some other obnoxious legal roadblock? I agree that at least it at least isn't a spit in the face like those "coupon for 5% off your next purchase of bottled water" while the lawyers pocket hundreds of millions.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >as much as do they typically get what they ask for? or does the judge strike it down?
  - mLuby 5y ago
    How do they justify that? Or is it part of some agreement with the primary claimant that they'll take the case for free but get some % of the winnings? Either way, mixing justice and profit feels slimy.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >Either way, mixing justice and profit feels slimy. It's slimy but it's still the least bad system. The alternative is the state having sole authority in compensating the victims (judging from the fact this went to trial, my guess is that they would have paid the victims far less), or leaving it to non-profits (which have limited budgets and are up against tax-payer funded lawyers).
      - mLuby 5y ago
- scrose 5y ago
  Considering adults also have to ‘prove’ they were injured by the lead… much of this money likely won’t be making it into the right hands
  - loonster 5y ago
    At the minimum, they will have costs associated with bringing fresh water to their home.
    - rhizome 5y ago
      They will have costs from going to the doctor to get diagnosed with "proof."
- optimiz3 5y ago
  Too bad it doesn't include 1 year of free credit monitoring.
  - gruez 5y ago
    *health monitoring.
  - 1121redblackgo 5y ago
    Jesus, don't remind me. What a joke of an outcome for the Equifax fiasco.
- chefandy 5y ago
  Yep. It's disgusting.
- authed 5y ago
  Kids should have got at least 100 times that amount...
- RandallBrown 5y ago
  I don't believe the whole city was exposed since not everyone had lead pipes between the source and their house.
smoldesu 5y ago
I live in Michigan, and I gotta say that this has been one of the most disappointing cases of state-level incompetence I've ever seen. This took nearly 7 years to sort out, in no part thanks to Rick Snyder dragging his feet in the mud the entire way. No matter how you feel about him politically, his treatment of this situation bordered on criminal negligence, and stands as a testament to how little your representatives actually care about your well-being. I fear that there is no way to prevent this from happening again if commercial interests continue to mar the goals of public office.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  I mean, yes, but... we only got here because Flint itself failed so utterly it could not even provide even basic services like running water to its residents, so the state took over. The state should have done better. But in reality, cities should not abdicate all responsibility for their own municipal services and expect anyone else to do it better.
  - jandrese 5y ago
    The disaster happened only after the state took over. It was caused by a cost cutting measure on the state's part and ultimately ended up being way more expensive than the anti-lead leeching additive they decided to not use.
    - bpodgursky 5y ago
      Yes. But the state took over because Flint was not financially able to run their own municipal water supply. I'm not saying the state was right. They were very wrong. Lead is awful. But if Flint had been a functioning city, we'd never be here. A state or federal government is never going to care as much as you do about your own lives and children. If you abdicate that responsibility and assume that "someone up there" will take care of you, you'll be bitten. It sucks, but it's reality.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
trhway 5y ago
At least this time the execs can't escape through their standard "i didn't know" (and if it were up to me i'd criminally charged any related city employee who hadn't filed a whistleblower complain about the water quality): https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2018/01/city_of_the_state_flints_histo.html https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2018/01/city_of_the_state_f... >Flint has had a total of four emergency managers: Ed Kurtz, Mike Brown, Darnell Earley and Gerald Ambrose. Both Earley and Ambrose are currently facing charges of criminal wrongdoing in relation to the city’s lead-in-water crisis, which occurred after the DEQ failed to require the city to treat Flint River water to make it less corrosive to lead. >A March 13, 2014, order signed by former Emergency Manager Gerald Ambrose for a water main cut-in at the water plant cleared the way for the switch to the river, according to emails released previously by the state Treasury. >Water quality complaints began to pour in almost immediately from city residents following the switch.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Did anyone expect the state to fix flint after fifty years of mismanagement?
  - trhway 5y ago
    the ultimate power is with the state, the state grants the city charter, so the state (We the People) is ultimately responsible for any prolonged and known mismanagement. Whether the state, i.e. We the People, is capable of fixing the Flint i guess is the question of what kind of People constitute that state. So far it looks, to me an outsider, like the People there don't give much of a damn about Flint.
jeffbee 5y ago
For perspective on how much lead Flint children were exposed to I suggest: https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/study-examines-blood-lead-levels-of-flint-children https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/study-examines-bloo...
- opencl 5y ago
  The actual paper is here, complete with graphs: https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(17)31758-4/fulltext https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(17)31758-4/fulltext
  - refurb 5y ago
    Well that puts it into perspective. Looks like lead exposure was a small blip on an other downward trend. Kids in Flint during this crisis had less lead in their blood than kids a decade earlier when there was no crisis? Why am I not surprised the folks who will make out the most from this are the lawyers?
- omgwtf1000 5y ago
  Coming soon, late night TV ads from legal firms à la Mesothelioma..
latchkey 5y ago
Something like this can happen anywhere, not just lead. Highly suggest you invest in filtration systems in your home. They generally fairly easy to install and aren't that expensive.
cardosof 5y ago
Half of American kids have lead in their blood[1] and I don't think this is only happening in the US. I don't think governments are inclined to fixing this either. [1] https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-american-kids-lead-blood-doctors-say https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-american-kids-lead-blood-...
- pkaye 5y ago
  Is there similar data for other countries for comparison?
- refurb 5y ago
  I mean lead naturally occurs and we can detect it down to parts per trillion, so saying “half of kids have lead in their body” doesn’t tell me much.
  - thelastgallon 5y ago
    There is no safe threshold for lead exposure. [1]. Nearly all toxins have some threshold, it becomes toxic at parts per million. For lead, this is zero. All toxins also decay/degrade over a period of time, the effects aren't long lasting. Not so for lead, it is forever! "Unlike such carcinogens and killers as pesticides, most chemicals, waste oils and even radioactive materials, lead does not break down over time. It does not vaporize, and it never disappears." "modern man’s lead exposure is 300 to 500 times greater than background or natural levels. " [2] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27837574/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27837574/ [2] https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2000/03/02/secret-history-lead/ https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2000/03/02/...
    - refurb 5y ago
      Please stop. You’re twisting facts to suit your own purpose. Let’s say there is no safe limit for lead. Regardless you’d have to agree that at some point the harm caused by lead becomes irrelevant? If someone has 1 ppt lead in their blood the harm isn’t actually measurable? And no, you’re wrong. Lead is excreted (why measure in urine/feces otherwise?). Lead exposure isn’t permanent just like all the other toxins humans are naturally exposed to.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
Slightly off topic but what I understand the recently passed Infrastructure bill has monies for addressing lead / water issues nationally. The issue is sad enough. But for it to take 7 yrs to be addressed by Uncle Sam is unconscionable.
mukundmr 5y ago
Have they fixed the problem though?
- hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
  https://www.abc12.com/2021/07/22/testing-shows-least-amount-lead-flint-water-since-water-crisis/ https://www.abc12.com/2021/07/22/testing-shows-least-amount-...
- maxerickson 5y ago
  There was a switch back to the Detroit water supply and a program to replace lead service lines: https://www.cityofflint.com/gettheleadout/ https://www.cityofflint.com/gettheleadout/ That doesn't necessarily address any houses with lead pipes inside the house, which are owned by the homeowner. (service lines are also generally treated as a homeowner responsibility, Michigan passed a law requiring cities to proactively swap them out)
Tozen 5y ago
So after poisoning thousands of people (including children that will suffer for life), somehow nearly no punishment to those responsible. Imagine how corrupt a system must be to allow those involved in poisoning thousands of people to get away with it. Then to add insult to injury, instead of justice, throw a handful of cash at the victims. While a huge payday for the lawyers, the money will barely be anything for the victims. Especially for those whose children are affected for life, or those dead and dying from drinking and bathing in contaminated water.
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  Isn’t this the same thing as the Sackler family and Purdue pharmaceutical and them getting away with paying a penalty for getting millions hooked on opiates and killing thousands more? America is corrupt to the core now and money buys you anything. Most people don’t even remember Vioxx. So much negligence is routinely swept under the rug.
- nwah1 5y ago
  Nobody intentionally poisoned anyone, and the EPA had certified the water source. The pipes leached lead, and it was a tragedy, but heads on pikes aren't going to fix much. A more comprehensive process for certifying water which includes a full accounting of the pipes, additives, and water source would help. Restitution to the victims helps. Many many water systems around the country are vulnerable to this kind of thing, as long as the pipes are lined with lead. That this particular city experienced it is awful, but it could easily happen to dozens of other cities, and likely already is affecting many. Mayors don't control funding. City councilors and voters generally do. Maybe let's lock up all voters who failed to adequately fund water.
  - tata71 5y ago
    > Nobody intentionally poisoned anyone, Once the local governing authority began shipping in bottled water to their office, without immediately sounding the alarm, is the moment the liability begins.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
edge17 5y ago
$600m from the state of Michigan, so tax payer money? So the people are paying for their own settlement? My guess is this shows up as an extra line item in the utility bill, like the San Bruno pipeline explosion a few years go. I don't have a solution but isn't this kind of crazy?
- maccolgan 5y ago
  It'll have to come out of somewhere, if it wasn't the government maybe some insurance company would pay, but unlike the Fed they can't print money either, so premiums will go up regardless, everyone pays in any case. Flint, MI is functionally bankrupt anyway so I don't think they'd have been able to charge higher premiums anyway.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  The people of Michigan voted for the leaders who decided to neglect the mess until a lawsuit was filed. Why shouldn't they be liable for the damages?
sjg007 5y ago
There will be huge special education needs going forward. I hope the city and state and federal govt step up and fund it. We know lead poisoning contributes to crime.
ahupp 5y ago
This paper tracks lead blood levels of Flint kids from 2005-2016: https://www.jpeds.com/pb/assets/raw/Health%20Advance/journals/ympd/S0022-3476(18)30062-3.pdf https://www.jpeds.com/pb/assets/raw/Health%20Advance/journal... Over this time range lead levels steadily declined with the exception of increases in 2011 and 2015. The 2015 increase brought lead levels back up to where they were in .... 2012 (and still 1/3 of the 2005 level). I'm guessing people just don't drink much tap water. It's hard to reconcile this relatively small change with the calls for intense punishment for those responsible.
authed 5y ago
I wonder how much that water tower cost: https://img.lemde.fr/2021/10/26/0/0/3500/2289/664/0/75/0/423f0e9_fw1-film-rust-flint-1026-11.jpg https://img.lemde.fr/2021/10/26/0/0/3500/2289/664/0/75/0/423...

145 points by authed 5y ago

drumhead 5y ago

This level of negligence merits custodial sentences, not just a financial settlement.

gruez 5y ago
That's pursued via the criminal courts, and is largely independent of the civil courts (which deals with monetary settlements). edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Criminal_prosecutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Criminal_pr...

crooked-v 5y ago

With a population of about 95,000 (circa 2020), and assuming 50% of that goes to the lawyers, that's about $3,294 per person.

advisedwang 5y ago
> The deal makes money available to every Flint child who was exposed to the water, every adult who can show an injury, certain business owners and anyone who paid water bills. After you subtract own money going to non-local property owners like large coporations, and then average out, yes.
- rhizome 5y ago
  All you have to do is send a request letter of no more than three hundred words to [address] by December 1, 2021. Envelopes must be #11 and the requestor's address must be centered on the back over the seam of the flap in a typeface no larger than 14pt. The front of the envelope should have [address] and a stamp. Any other markings or creases on the envelope will void the request.
- treeman79 5y ago
  Me and family were poisoned a few years ago, severe negligence by a rental company. Probably half a million in medical bills so far and counting. Insurance covered most of it. One thing we leaned is doctors have zero interest in helping you to show injuries or claims. Something like posion is outside their domain. They treat symptoms and want nothing to do with you as person. Claim forms send them running. Was functionally blind and stuck in bed for a year. No doctor would fill out paperwork. Disability literally just laughed at me. By the time we got lawyers involved we started hitting deadlines for suing. So now layers have zero interest. Unless it’s a very clear thing like “piano fell on head” your going to have a rough time getting justice.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    > They treat symptoms and want nothing to do with you as person. Claim forms send them running. They treat medical problems, not legal ones.
    - sophacles 5y ago
      They treat medical problems by causing legal ones would be a far more accurate statement.
    - treeman79 5y ago
      Family almost became homeless because they didn’t want to fill out forms. I absolutely would have died due to loss of coverage.
Pxtl 5y ago
Ouch. I'd like to think "not having lead poisoning" would be worth a bit more than that.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  Not to sound callous but maybe they incorporate future expecting earnings of someone living in Flint, MI in their calculations somehow. EDIT: I know there is a rule against discussing downvotes, but this is a factual statement and the notion that this comment isn't relevant or doesn't enhance the conversation (for anyone who downvoted me) is an affront to any semblance of being capable of reasonable discourse in civil society - any downvoters should really reflect on what makes you feel like a statement made by a poster is actually what the poster thinks may or may not be right vs. your feelings of the post upsetting you.
  - thebooktocome 5y ago
    Wow, yeah, that sounds pretty callous.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Yeah, that's the point of the legal system. Even though the non-callous thing would be to treat life/health as priceless, you can't really be giving the victims infinity dollars for their suffering.
    - dontbeevil1992 5y ago
      surely there's some middle ground between infinity and a paltry $3500. in our legal system there are concepts like damages, emotional damages, pain and suffering. it's not just about how much wages you missed out on. or does all that just go out the window because these are members of society who aren't paid a lot for their labor?
      - loonster 5y ago
        The problem is it's a class action against the government that the people elected. The victims are both the petitioner and the defendant. Regardless of the amount paid, the only beneficiaries are the lawyers.
njovin 5y ago
And it's being paid by the state, presumably in no small part by tax dollars the victims themselves contributed to state funds. It's a slap in the face all around.
- madengr 5y ago
  Who’s it supposed to be paid by?
  - teawrecks 5y ago
    Insurance
    - loonster 5y ago
      The premiums are paid by the government. No sorry that doesn't shift the cost to anyone else.
      - Retric 5y ago
        Premiums and payouts are very separate pools of money. Life insurance payouts for example can in theory be consistently be larger than premiums.
  - loonster 5y ago
    The people that were ultimately responsible. Which I would argue is the voters. It's a neat trick. Lawyers take 600m out of the voters back pocket, hand back 400m, and the people rejoice.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >It's a neat trick. Lawyers take 600m out of the voters back pocket, hand back 400m, and the people rejoice. and that's fine, because you're not taking $60 out of everyone's pocket and giving back $40, they're taking $60 out of everyone's pocket and giving $4000 to the people affected. The point of the lawsuit is to force redistributing wealth to compensate the people affected, not as some sort of money-maker.
jvanderbot 5y ago
Attorneys have been seeking as much as $200 million in legal fees from the $626 million settlement. -TFA
- judge2020 5y ago
  Better than some class-action settlement splits, I suppose.
  - jandrese 5y ago
    It also depends on how strict the claim process is. Do they need a signed doctors note from 2014 to take part or some other obnoxious legal roadblock? I agree that at least it at least isn't a spit in the face like those "coupon for 5% off your next purchase of bottled water" while the lawyers pocket hundreds of millions.
- gruez 5y ago
  >as much as do they typically get what they ask for? or does the judge strike it down?
- mLuby 5y ago
  How do they justify that? Or is it part of some agreement with the primary claimant that they'll take the case for free but get some % of the winnings? Either way, mixing justice and profit feels slimy.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >Either way, mixing justice and profit feels slimy. It's slimy but it's still the least bad system. The alternative is the state having sole authority in compensating the victims (judging from the fact this went to trial, my guess is that they would have paid the victims far less), or leaving it to non-profits (which have limited budgets and are up against tax-payer funded lawyers).
    - mLuby 5y ago
scrose 5y ago
Considering adults also have to ‘prove’ they were injured by the lead… much of this money likely won’t be making it into the right hands
- loonster 5y ago
  At the minimum, they will have costs associated with bringing fresh water to their home.
  - rhizome 5y ago
    They will have costs from going to the doctor to get diagnosed with "proof."
optimiz3 5y ago
Too bad it doesn't include 1 year of free credit monitoring.
- gruez 5y ago
  *health monitoring.
- 1121redblackgo 5y ago
  Jesus, don't remind me. What a joke of an outcome for the Equifax fiasco.
chefandy 5y ago
Yep. It's disgusting.
authed 5y ago
Kids should have got at least 100 times that amount...
RandallBrown 5y ago
I don't believe the whole city was exposed since not everyone had lead pipes between the source and their house.

smoldesu 5y ago

I live in Michigan, and I gotta say that this has been one of the most disappointing cases of state-level incompetence I've ever seen. This took nearly 7 years to sort out, in no part thanks to Rick Snyder dragging his feet in the mud the entire way. No matter how you feel about him politically, his treatment of this situation bordered on criminal negligence, and stands as a testament to how little your representatives actually care about your well-being. I fear that there is no way to prevent this from happening again if commercial interests continue to mar the goals of public office.

bpodgursky 5y ago
I mean, yes, but... we only got here because Flint itself failed so utterly it could not even provide even basic services like running water to its residents, so the state took over. The state should have done better. But in reality, cities should not abdicate all responsibility for their own municipal services and expect anyone else to do it better.
- jandrese 5y ago
  The disaster happened only after the state took over. It was caused by a cost cutting measure on the state's part and ultimately ended up being way more expensive than the anti-lead leeching additive they decided to not use.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Yes. But the state took over because Flint was not financially able to run their own municipal water supply. I'm not saying the state was right. They were very wrong. Lead is awful. But if Flint had been a functioning city, we'd never be here. A state or federal government is never going to care as much as you do about your own lives and children. If you abdicate that responsibility and assume that "someone up there" will take care of you, you'll be bitten. It sucks, but it's reality.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago

trhway 5y ago

At least this time the execs can't escape through their standard "i didn't know" (and if it were up to me i'd criminally charged any related city employee who hadn't filed a whistleblower complain about the water quality): https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2018/01/city_of_the_state_flints_histo.html https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2018/01/city_of_the_state_f... >Flint has had a total of four emergency managers: Ed Kurtz, Mike Brown, Darnell Earley and Gerald Ambrose. Both Earley and Ambrose are currently facing charges of criminal wrongdoing in relation to the city’s lead-in-water crisis, which occurred after the DEQ failed to require the city to treat Flint River water to make it less corrosive to lead. >A March 13, 2014, order signed by former Emergency Manager Gerald Ambrose for a water main cut-in at the water plant cleared the way for the switch to the river, according to emails released previously by the state Treasury. >Water quality complaints began to pour in almost immediately from city residents following the switch.

bluedino 5y ago
Did anyone expect the state to fix flint after fifty years of mismanagement?
- trhway 5y ago
  the ultimate power is with the state, the state grants the city charter, so the state (We the People) is ultimately responsible for any prolonged and known mismanagement. Whether the state, i.e. We the People, is capable of fixing the Flint i guess is the question of what kind of People constitute that state. So far it looks, to me an outsider, like the People there don't give much of a damn about Flint.

jeffbee 5y ago

For perspective on how much lead Flint children were exposed to I suggest: https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/study-examines-blood-lead-levels-of-flint-children https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/study-examines-bloo...

opencl 5y ago
The actual paper is here, complete with graphs: https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(17)31758-4/fulltext https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(17)31758-4/fulltext
- refurb 5y ago
  Well that puts it into perspective. Looks like lead exposure was a small blip on an other downward trend. Kids in Flint during this crisis had less lead in their blood than kids a decade earlier when there was no crisis? Why am I not surprised the folks who will make out the most from this are the lawyers?
omgwtf1000 5y ago
Coming soon, late night TV ads from legal firms à la Mesothelioma..

latchkey 5y ago

Something like this can happen anywhere, not just lead. Highly suggest you invest in filtration systems in your home. They generally fairly easy to install and aren't that expensive.

cardosof 5y ago

Half of American kids have lead in their blood[1] and I don't think this is only happening in the US. I don't think governments are inclined to fixing this either. [1] https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-american-kids-lead-blood-doctors-say https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-american-kids-lead-blood-...

pkaye 5y ago
Is there similar data for other countries for comparison?
refurb 5y ago
I mean lead naturally occurs and we can detect it down to parts per trillion, so saying “half of kids have lead in their body” doesn’t tell me much.
- thelastgallon 5y ago
  There is no safe threshold for lead exposure. [1]. Nearly all toxins have some threshold, it becomes toxic at parts per million. For lead, this is zero. All toxins also decay/degrade over a period of time, the effects aren't long lasting. Not so for lead, it is forever! "Unlike such carcinogens and killers as pesticides, most chemicals, waste oils and even radioactive materials, lead does not break down over time. It does not vaporize, and it never disappears." "modern man’s lead exposure is 300 to 500 times greater than background or natural levels. " [2] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27837574/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27837574/ [2] https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2000/03/02/secret-history-lead/ https://www.typeinvestigations.org/investigation/2000/03/02/...
  - refurb 5y ago
    Please stop. You’re twisting facts to suit your own purpose. Let’s say there is no safe limit for lead. Regardless you’d have to agree that at some point the harm caused by lead becomes irrelevant? If someone has 1 ppt lead in their blood the harm isn’t actually measurable? And no, you’re wrong. Lead is excreted (why measure in urine/feces otherwise?). Lead exposure isn’t permanent just like all the other toxins humans are naturally exposed to.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

Slightly off topic but what I understand the recently passed Infrastructure bill has monies for addressing lead / water issues nationally. The issue is sad enough. But for it to take 7 yrs to be addressed by Uncle Sam is unconscionable.

mukundmr 5y ago

Have they fixed the problem though?

hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
https://www.abc12.com/2021/07/22/testing-shows-least-amount-lead-flint-water-since-water-crisis/ https://www.abc12.com/2021/07/22/testing-shows-least-amount-...
maxerickson 5y ago
There was a switch back to the Detroit water supply and a program to replace lead service lines: https://www.cityofflint.com/gettheleadout/ https://www.cityofflint.com/gettheleadout/ That doesn't necessarily address any houses with lead pipes inside the house, which are owned by the homeowner. (service lines are also generally treated as a homeowner responsibility, Michigan passed a law requiring cities to proactively swap them out)

Tozen 5y ago

So after poisoning thousands of people (including children that will suffer for life), somehow nearly no punishment to those responsible. Imagine how corrupt a system must be to allow those involved in poisoning thousands of people to get away with it. Then to add insult to injury, instead of justice, throw a handful of cash at the victims. While a huge payday for the lawyers, the money will barely be anything for the victims. Especially for those whose children are affected for life, or those dead and dying from drinking and bathing in contaminated water.

diogenescynic 5y ago
Isn’t this the same thing as the Sackler family and Purdue pharmaceutical and them getting away with paying a penalty for getting millions hooked on opiates and killing thousands more? America is corrupt to the core now and money buys you anything. Most people don’t even remember Vioxx. So much negligence is routinely swept under the rug.
nwah1 5y ago
Nobody intentionally poisoned anyone, and the EPA had certified the water source. The pipes leached lead, and it was a tragedy, but heads on pikes aren't going to fix much. A more comprehensive process for certifying water which includes a full accounting of the pipes, additives, and water source would help. Restitution to the victims helps. Many many water systems around the country are vulnerable to this kind of thing, as long as the pipes are lined with lead. That this particular city experienced it is awful, but it could easily happen to dozens of other cities, and likely already is affecting many. Mayors don't control funding. City councilors and voters generally do. Maybe let's lock up all voters who failed to adequately fund water.
- tata71 5y ago
  > Nobody intentionally poisoned anyone, Once the local governing authority began shipping in bottled water to their office, without immediately sounding the alarm, is the moment the liability begins.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

edge17 5y ago

$600m from the state of Michigan, so tax payer money? So the people are paying for their own settlement? My guess is this shows up as an extra line item in the utility bill, like the San Bruno pipeline explosion a few years go. I don't have a solution but isn't this kind of crazy?

maccolgan 5y ago
It'll have to come out of somewhere, if it wasn't the government maybe some insurance company would pay, but unlike the Fed they can't print money either, so premiums will go up regardless, everyone pays in any case. Flint, MI is functionally bankrupt anyway so I don't think they'd have been able to charge higher premiums anyway.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
The people of Michigan voted for the leaders who decided to neglect the mess until a lawsuit was filed. Why shouldn't they be liable for the damages?

sjg007 5y ago

There will be huge special education needs going forward. I hope the city and state and federal govt step up and fund it. We know lead poisoning contributes to crime.

ahupp 5y ago

This paper tracks lead blood levels of Flint kids from 2005-2016: https://www.jpeds.com/pb/assets/raw/Health%20Advance/journals/ympd/S0022-3476(18)30062-3.pdf https://www.jpeds.com/pb/assets/raw/Health%20Advance/journal... Over this time range lead levels steadily declined with the exception of increases in 2011 and 2015. The 2015 increase brought lead levels back up to where they were in .... 2012 (and still 1/3 of the 2005 level). I'm guessing people just don't drink much tap water. It's hard to reconcile this relatively small change with the calls for intense punishment for those responsible.

authed 5y ago

I wonder how much that water tower cost: https://img.lemde.fr/2021/10/26/0/0/3500/2289/664/0/75/0/423f0e9_fw1-film-rust-flint-1026-11.jpg https://img.lemde.fr/2021/10/26/0/0/3500/2289/664/0/75/0/423...