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I was in the same boat. I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market

I was in the same boat. I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). So we bought new. We had to buy a car that was just off the delivery truck before the dealership had it inspected. The one we'd looked at two days before was long gone and they expected the one we bought to be sold the next day. My neighbor traded in his truck for more than he paid for it two years ago. It's bonkers. Mechanics are about to make a killing.

baggy_trough 5y ago
Why do you think those market adjustments are ridiculous? Isn't that how supply and demand will adjust?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  If you are adversely affected by price changes, then price changes ridiculous, absurd, and ripoffs. If you are beneficially affected by price changes, then price changes are a result of supply and demand.
  - eru 5y ago
    There's a third option: The market clearing price has increased, but sellers refuse (or are banned) from increasing their prices. That way leads to queues and shortages. Of course, in the opposite direction you get inventory piling up (or unemployed people).
- clavalle 5y ago
  You're right, poor choice of words. Quite rational market adjustments. However...I did end up going to another dealership that didn't do the adjustments. Since I tend to stick with vendors, especially for large ticket items, I suspect the total lifetime value the first dealership missed out on by tacking on the market adjustment (that they didn't tell us about until we asked -- it wasn't on the sticker), eclipses the extra profit they would have made on that sale, even when adjusting for the time value of money.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
>Mechanics are about to make a killing. If you're a mechanic and already have plenty of business, I imagine it's a tough call: do you jack up your hourly rates and take advantage of the windfall, at the risk of customer loyalty in the future? This insanity will pass, after all.
- ska 5y ago
  Perhaps you just get pickier about the jobs you take.
  - randycupertino 5y ago
    My mechanic does this! He loves to work on classic cars as a passion project and has a bunch of classics in his lot that he's slowly working on, however if you call him now, his voicemail says, "Please note if you are calling to inquire work on a model over 20 years old the waiting list is 5-6 months." He's a great guy- if anyone is in Bay Area and needs a good honest mechanic for foreign or domestic, shout out to Jack at Tom and Jacks in San Bruno!
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      That message does nice double duty as a PC way of saying poors need not bother shopping him for a quote to replace something on their '99 Grand Caravan.
      - CoastalCoder 5y ago
        IIUC, you're implying that that mechanic is disdainful of poor customers, and that this just provides convenient political cover. If so, I'm not sure why you'd assume that. It seems more likely to me that the mechanic is simply choosing his work based on personal interest and perhaps profitability. I don't see why we'd ask anything more than that from him.
        throwaway0a5e 5y ago
lastofthemojito 5y ago
The narrative earlier in the pandemic was that the reduction in driving was brutal for mechanics as it meant a reduction in need for auto maintenance and repair. Fewer of us are staying at home these days, but it looks like we're still not quite back to pre-pandemic levels of driving[0]. I'd imagine it's probably a bit of a mixed bag for mechanics, depending on what sort of vehicles they specialize in, where they're located, etc. 0: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA
- csteubs 5y ago
  Might be anecdotal but on top of that, I've noticed that many car owners who previously only had services performed by a shop began doing their own maintenance. A friend who works as a service manager at CarMax had similar observations in conversations with some customers, including one DIY-er who forgot to torque their oil drain bolt correctly, lost the oil, and is now the recipient of a refurbished engine. I had only done light maintenance/upgrade work on my cars prior to the pandemic. In the last year I've replaced a rear main seal, front + rear rotors + pads on all my cars, new control arms, shocks, and struts on a sedan, a ton of electrical work, cold air upgrades, every single fluid drained and filled, etc. DIY content on YouTube is getting to the point where a middle schooler can fab a car from scratch given enough time and motivation. YMMV (literally).
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Jumping from only light maintenance to changing a rear main seal is quite the leap!
    - csteubs 5y ago
      No better feeling though! Especially when running the numbers post-fix (insert CS joke here) and comparing to shop quotes. I keep spreadsheets for two cars and an older jet ski and I've saved ~$12k this year alone by wrenching solo assuming $100/hr = standard labor rate. I've learned a TON of cross-functional skills, have full control over the parts and repair, and it's just a feel-good way to step away from my desk when things slow down at work. I remind myself of the the 5-digit savings whenever I'm in line at Harbor Freight... which is often.
jiveturkey 5y ago
Why are dealer market adjustments ridiculous? We live and breathe market forces. No one ever, ever, complains about market adjustments in their favor.
- SilasX 5y ago
  It’s the opposite: Normal market: “this product costs $2.60.” ‘Wasn’t it like, $2.10 a week ago?’ “Yes it was.” Cars: “This car is $26k. Oh, also you have to pay a $2k market adjustment, because man things are just crazy.” That is, in normal markets, you just raise the price, you don’t need to refer to an explicit “market adjustment”, especially not as a random addon.
  - greedo 5y ago
    This is an industry famous for charging a small fortune for BS undercoatings. For Doc fees, Nitrogen air in tires, destination fees etc.
    - frosted-flakes 5y ago
      Rust-prevention undercoatings aren't BS. They really work if re-applied regularly.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    On a used car, they do as you describe. On a new car, the sticker generally starts with something like “manufacturer’s suggested base price” then various options, then local adjustments. You can’t just claim that the manufacturer’s suggested base price is $2K higher than it actually is.
    - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
      I mean you _could_. MSRP is not unique to cars. Graphics cards are sold in online stores for higher than MSRP. It's just not something that dealers are likely to do, because they gravitate towards fees over changing the price.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
> My neighbor traded in his truck for more than he paid for it two years ago. Sold my 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup to Carmax for over $32K. I probably paid more than that a few years ago when I bought it new, but I thought it would have depreciated much more than that. It's nice on the selling end.
satronaut 5y ago
I bought a tesla about a year ago. I only had to wait a week for it. 0 down and something like 2% APR. I feel like I really lucked out there
- propogandist 5y ago
  we're talking about trends and the crazy car market this year, but thanks for telling us you got a tesla
  - satronaut 5y ago
    you're welcome, I love telling people I got a tesla =)
- mancerayder 5y ago
  It's regional. I got one some months ago "barely used" with 12 miles on it, delivered within a month. A friend's Model 3 got flooded and insurance paid for a new one, he was able to get a Model 3 Performance within two weeks, brand new. This was one month ago in the Northeast. A friend in Denver, CO, was not so lucky: casually looking to buy in September, a delivery timeframe of Jan-Feb 2022 presented itself.
  - satronaut 5y ago
    it's crazy! like, I'm sure tesla is loving having the backlog, but this isn't some transitory issue like cnn wants us to think.
eru 5y ago
> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table? > Mechanics are about to make a killing. Well, we often hear exhortations to reduce-reuse-recycle. Here, the market is sending a price signal exactly along these lines, and people react appropriately.
- quintushoratius 5y ago
  >> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). >It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table? I believe their behavior is somewhat constrained by the manufacturers, who have slightly different sales goals in mind. They take a longer view, where new car sales are more than a sale, it represents a chance to upgrade the customer in a couple of years. Dealerships, on the other hand, often take a very short-sighted view of customers.

baggy_trough 5y ago

Why do you think those market adjustments are ridiculous? Isn't that how supply and demand will adjust?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
If you are adversely affected by price changes, then price changes ridiculous, absurd, and ripoffs. If you are beneficially affected by price changes, then price changes are a result of supply and demand.
- eru 5y ago
  There's a third option: The market clearing price has increased, but sellers refuse (or are banned) from increasing their prices. That way leads to queues and shortages. Of course, in the opposite direction you get inventory piling up (or unemployed people).
clavalle 5y ago
You're right, poor choice of words. Quite rational market adjustments. However...I did end up going to another dealership that didn't do the adjustments. Since I tend to stick with vendors, especially for large ticket items, I suspect the total lifetime value the first dealership missed out on by tacking on the market adjustment (that they didn't tell us about until we asked -- it wasn't on the sticker), eclipses the extra profit they would have made on that sale, even when adjusting for the time value of money.

kspacewalk2 5y ago

>Mechanics are about to make a killing. If you're a mechanic and already have plenty of business, I imagine it's a tough call: do you jack up your hourly rates and take advantage of the windfall, at the risk of customer loyalty in the future? This insanity will pass, after all.

ska 5y ago
Perhaps you just get pickier about the jobs you take.
- randycupertino 5y ago
  My mechanic does this! He loves to work on classic cars as a passion project and has a bunch of classics in his lot that he's slowly working on, however if you call him now, his voicemail says, "Please note if you are calling to inquire work on a model over 20 years old the waiting list is 5-6 months." He's a great guy- if anyone is in Bay Area and needs a good honest mechanic for foreign or domestic, shout out to Jack at Tom and Jacks in San Bruno!
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    That message does nice double duty as a PC way of saying poors need not bother shopping him for a quote to replace something on their '99 Grand Caravan.
    - CoastalCoder 5y ago
      IIUC, you're implying that that mechanic is disdainful of poor customers, and that this just provides convenient political cover. If so, I'm not sure why you'd assume that. It seems more likely to me that the mechanic is simply choosing his work based on personal interest and perhaps profitability. I don't see why we'd ask anything more than that from him.
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago

lastofthemojito 5y ago

The narrative earlier in the pandemic was that the reduction in driving was brutal for mechanics as it meant a reduction in need for auto maintenance and repair. Fewer of us are staying at home these days, but it looks like we're still not quite back to pre-pandemic levels of driving[0]. I'd imagine it's probably a bit of a mixed bag for mechanics, depending on what sort of vehicles they specialize in, where they're located, etc. 0: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA

csteubs 5y ago
Might be anecdotal but on top of that, I've noticed that many car owners who previously only had services performed by a shop began doing their own maintenance. A friend who works as a service manager at CarMax had similar observations in conversations with some customers, including one DIY-er who forgot to torque their oil drain bolt correctly, lost the oil, and is now the recipient of a refurbished engine. I had only done light maintenance/upgrade work on my cars prior to the pandemic. In the last year I've replaced a rear main seal, front + rear rotors + pads on all my cars, new control arms, shocks, and struts on a sedan, a ton of electrical work, cold air upgrades, every single fluid drained and filled, etc. DIY content on YouTube is getting to the point where a middle schooler can fab a car from scratch given enough time and motivation. YMMV (literally).
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Jumping from only light maintenance to changing a rear main seal is quite the leap!
  - csteubs 5y ago
    No better feeling though! Especially when running the numbers post-fix (insert CS joke here) and comparing to shop quotes. I keep spreadsheets for two cars and an older jet ski and I've saved ~$12k this year alone by wrenching solo assuming $100/hr = standard labor rate. I've learned a TON of cross-functional skills, have full control over the parts and repair, and it's just a feel-good way to step away from my desk when things slow down at work. I remind myself of the the 5-digit savings whenever I'm in line at Harbor Freight... which is often.

jiveturkey 5y ago

Why are dealer market adjustments ridiculous? We live and breathe market forces. No one ever, ever, complains about market adjustments in their favor.

SilasX 5y ago
It’s the opposite: Normal market: “this product costs $2.60.” ‘Wasn’t it like, $2.10 a week ago?’ “Yes it was.” Cars: “This car is $26k. Oh, also you have to pay a $2k market adjustment, because man things are just crazy.” That is, in normal markets, you just raise the price, you don’t need to refer to an explicit “market adjustment”, especially not as a random addon.
- greedo 5y ago
  This is an industry famous for charging a small fortune for BS undercoatings. For Doc fees, Nitrogen air in tires, destination fees etc.
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    Rust-prevention undercoatings aren't BS. They really work if re-applied regularly.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  On a used car, they do as you describe. On a new car, the sticker generally starts with something like “manufacturer’s suggested base price” then various options, then local adjustments. You can’t just claim that the manufacturer’s suggested base price is $2K higher than it actually is.
  - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
    I mean you _could_. MSRP is not unique to cars. Graphics cards are sold in online stores for higher than MSRP. It's just not something that dealers are likely to do, because they gravitate towards fees over changing the price.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

> My neighbor traded in his truck for more than he paid for it two years ago. Sold my 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup to Carmax for over $32K. I probably paid more than that a few years ago when I bought it new, but I thought it would have depreciated much more than that. It's nice on the selling end.

satronaut 5y ago

I bought a tesla about a year ago. I only had to wait a week for it. 0 down and something like 2% APR. I feel like I really lucked out there

propogandist 5y ago
we're talking about trends and the crazy car market this year, but thanks for telling us you got a tesla
- satronaut 5y ago
  you're welcome, I love telling people I got a tesla =)
mancerayder 5y ago
It's regional. I got one some months ago "barely used" with 12 miles on it, delivered within a month. A friend's Model 3 got flooded and insurance paid for a new one, he was able to get a Model 3 Performance within two weeks, brand new. This was one month ago in the Northeast. A friend in Denver, CO, was not so lucky: casually looking to buy in September, a delivery timeframe of Jan-Feb 2022 presented itself.
- satronaut 5y ago
  it's crazy! like, I'm sure tesla is loving having the backlog, but this isn't some transitory issue like cnn wants us to think.

eru 5y ago

> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table? > Mechanics are about to make a killing. Well, we often hear exhortations to reduce-reuse-recycle. Here, the market is sending a price signal exactly along these lines, and people react appropriately.

quintushoratius 5y ago
>> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). >It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table? I believe their behavior is somewhat constrained by the manufacturers, who have slightly different sales goals in mind. They take a longer view, where new car sales are more than a sale, it represents a chance to upgrade the customer in a couple of years. Dealerships, on the other hand, often take a very short-sighted view of customers.