7 ms·

The shrooms community has known about this for a long time, and now it's just about recreating the knowledge in peer-reviewed studies. Although there is a lot o

The shrooms community has known about this for a long time, and now it's just about recreating the knowledge in peer-reviewed studies. Although there is a lot of "woo woo" on shrooms usage in the online communities, I do hope that researchers can extract the useful bits. This isn't like an SSRI. 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. Your setting and "head space" matter a lot for how your "trip" (which we will now rebrand as "treatment") will go. This needs to be accounted for in future studies.

goodroot 5y ago
> 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. I would disagree. For many, 25mg is sub-perceptual. Source: have done this over several year.
- WalterSear 5y ago
  3-5 grams of mushrooms? I want to work where you work. I hope it doesn't involve heavy machinery.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    it depend on your weight, and potency of batch. I have settled on 2g every 3rd day. 1g dose seems to work only on empty stomach and I have to pay attention to feel difference in my mood. I can easily see a big guy taking 3-5g and not feeling much beyond mood boost.
- tayo42 5y ago
  20-something mg of 4aco dmt was pretty wild, psilocybin must be somewhat similar
- OnACoffeeBreak 5y ago
  I am guessing the 25 mg does here is of pure psilocybin, which is about 2.5 g of dried mushrooms.
- nobodyofnote 5y ago
  I think you're confusing 25mg of psilocybin with a microdose of 25mg of dried mushrooms. 25mg of pure psilocybin is anything but sub-perceptual.
  - goodroot 5y ago
    Ahhh - yes, missed this. Holy hell, yeah that'd blow the roof off for sure.
dorchadas 5y ago
> This isn't like an SSRI. 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. Your setting and "head space" matter a lot for how your "trip" (which we will now rebrand as "treatment") will go. This needs to be accounted for in future studies. This is what I worry about. It's likely great, when done in the care of a licensed and trained therapist. It's not the mystical panacea many will make it out to be, and I worry that people will do it when they're not with the right people and it'll be a mess.
- abrichr 5y ago
  The Huberman Lab podcast episode on depression touches on this. According to Dr. Huberman the quality of the trip is not important, the chemical changes the brain function regardless.
  - dorchadas 5y ago
    But is it solely the chemical changes in the brain that "fix" the depression, or does it also have to do with integrating what you've seen and experienced into your worldview?
    - abrichr 5y ago
      Apologies in advance for the formatting, copied and pasted from YouTube transcript: https://youtu.be/Xu1FMCxoEFc?t=5928 https://youtu.be/Xu1FMCxoEFc?t=5928 99:33 But one of the things that came up 99:35 and is a fundamental question that I had, 99:37 that I think probably many of you are asking, 99:38 is does the experience that one has on these compounds 99:43 make a difference for whether or not somebody gains relief 99:46 from depression, from these psilocybin journeys or not? 99:50 In other words, does it matter what they talk about? 99:52 Does it matter what they think about? 99:53 Does it matter if they have a good trip or a bad trip? 99:56 And I don't want to hold you in too much suspense, 99:58 I'll let Matthew provide the more thorough answer. 100:00 But what's really interesting 100:02 is there are some common themes to psilocybin administration 100:08 and experience that lead to relief from depressive symptoms, 100:11 but they are subjectively very varied, 100:17 meaning that whether or not people feel 100:20 they had a good experience or a bad experience, 100:22 whether or not people thought about their parents 100:24 or thought about the color of the ceiling, 100:27 doesn't seem to have too much of an impact 100:30 on whether or not they receive relief 100:32 during these studies in these clinical studies. 100:37 It seems like different people can have 100:38 lots of different experiences and still receive benefit. 100:42 And that points to something deeper. 100:45 It points to the fact that these drugs, 100:48 which is really what they are, 100:49 are rewiring neural circuitry in a common way 100:53 despite a diversity of experience while on the drug. 100:57 And that itself is really interesting. 100:58 And it takes us back to a place that we've been before 101:01 in this discussion, which is layer five of the cortex. 101:04 This area that ketamine seems to impact as well 101:06 by generating rhythms of the, 101:08 I mentioned one to three Hertz activity 101:10 in layer five of certain areas of the cortex.
pizzeriafrida 5y ago
Translating a dose in mg to the equivalent amount of dried mushrooms you would likely come across recreationally is quite difficult, but I believe 25mg equates to something like 4-5g of dried mushrooms which would be a full on trip beyond surfaces flowing like water :sweat-smile:
- kemayo 5y ago
  I did some brief googling on the topic earlier, and the best I could find was "anywhere from 5-20 milligrams of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom". Which is very unhelpful for working out whether these people took a strong dose by recreational standards. :D
  - Zircom 5y ago
    It's more or less impossible to know the psilocybin content of any one specific mushroom offhand, and it can vary greatly even between mushrooms from the same batch, thus microdosing with actual shrooms is an inexact science. You can grind them up into powder and mix it together to average it out, but the total psilocybin will still be an estimate at best. There is 4 aco dmt, which is supposedly gets converted to psilocin just like psilocybin and I don't believe is illegal in the US, however it degrades very easily into psilocin if stored incorrectly so can be dicey to have since psilocin itself is still illegal.
  - _yrst 5y ago
    Erowid dosage pages can be helpful: https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml vs. https://erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtm...
- amelius 5y ago
  Isn't uptake through digestive tract unreliable? Mental disorders require extremely precise dosing, therefore probably should administer intravenously.
  - 5y ago

goodroot 5y ago

> 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. I would disagree. For many, 25mg is sub-perceptual. Source: have done this over several year.

WalterSear 5y ago
3-5 grams of mushrooms? I want to work where you work. I hope it doesn't involve heavy machinery.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  it depend on your weight, and potency of batch. I have settled on 2g every 3rd day. 1g dose seems to work only on empty stomach and I have to pay attention to feel difference in my mood. I can easily see a big guy taking 3-5g and not feeling much beyond mood boost.
tayo42 5y ago
20-something mg of 4aco dmt was pretty wild, psilocybin must be somewhat similar
OnACoffeeBreak 5y ago
I am guessing the 25 mg does here is of pure psilocybin, which is about 2.5 g of dried mushrooms.
nobodyofnote 5y ago
I think you're confusing 25mg of psilocybin with a microdose of 25mg of dried mushrooms. 25mg of pure psilocybin is anything but sub-perceptual.
- goodroot 5y ago
  Ahhh - yes, missed this. Holy hell, yeah that'd blow the roof off for sure.

dorchadas 5y ago

> This isn't like an SSRI. 25mg psilocybin isn't something you can just pop at the beginning of a workday. Your setting and "head space" matter a lot for how your "trip" (which we will now rebrand as "treatment") will go. This needs to be accounted for in future studies. This is what I worry about. It's likely great, when done in the care of a licensed and trained therapist. It's not the mystical panacea many will make it out to be, and I worry that people will do it when they're not with the right people and it'll be a mess.

abrichr 5y ago
The Huberman Lab podcast episode on depression touches on this. According to Dr. Huberman the quality of the trip is not important, the chemical changes the brain function regardless.
- dorchadas 5y ago
  But is it solely the chemical changes in the brain that "fix" the depression, or does it also have to do with integrating what you've seen and experienced into your worldview?
  - abrichr 5y ago
    Apologies in advance for the formatting, copied and pasted from YouTube transcript: https://youtu.be/Xu1FMCxoEFc?t=5928 https://youtu.be/Xu1FMCxoEFc?t=5928 99:33 But one of the things that came up 99:35 and is a fundamental question that I had, 99:37 that I think probably many of you are asking, 99:38 is does the experience that one has on these compounds 99:43 make a difference for whether or not somebody gains relief 99:46 from depression, from these psilocybin journeys or not? 99:50 In other words, does it matter what they talk about? 99:52 Does it matter what they think about? 99:53 Does it matter if they have a good trip or a bad trip? 99:56 And I don't want to hold you in too much suspense, 99:58 I'll let Matthew provide the more thorough answer. 100:00 But what's really interesting 100:02 is there are some common themes to psilocybin administration 100:08 and experience that lead to relief from depressive symptoms, 100:11 but they are subjectively very varied, 100:17 meaning that whether or not people feel 100:20 they had a good experience or a bad experience, 100:22 whether or not people thought about their parents 100:24 or thought about the color of the ceiling, 100:27 doesn't seem to have too much of an impact 100:30 on whether or not they receive relief 100:32 during these studies in these clinical studies. 100:37 It seems like different people can have 100:38 lots of different experiences and still receive benefit. 100:42 And that points to something deeper. 100:45 It points to the fact that these drugs, 100:48 which is really what they are, 100:49 are rewiring neural circuitry in a common way 100:53 despite a diversity of experience while on the drug. 100:57 And that itself is really interesting. 100:58 And it takes us back to a place that we've been before 101:01 in this discussion, which is layer five of the cortex. 101:04 This area that ketamine seems to impact as well 101:06 by generating rhythms of the, 101:08 I mentioned one to three Hertz activity 101:10 in layer five of certain areas of the cortex.

pizzeriafrida 5y ago

Translating a dose in mg to the equivalent amount of dried mushrooms you would likely come across recreationally is quite difficult, but I believe 25mg equates to something like 4-5g of dried mushrooms which would be a full on trip beyond surfaces flowing like water :sweat-smile:

kemayo 5y ago
I did some brief googling on the topic earlier, and the best I could find was "anywhere from 5-20 milligrams of psilocybin per gram of dried mushroom". Which is very unhelpful for working out whether these people took a strong dose by recreational standards. :D
- Zircom 5y ago
  It's more or less impossible to know the psilocybin content of any one specific mushroom offhand, and it can vary greatly even between mushrooms from the same batch, thus microdosing with actual shrooms is an inexact science. You can grind them up into powder and mix it together to average it out, but the total psilocybin will still be an estimate at best. There is 4 aco dmt, which is supposedly gets converted to psilocin just like psilocybin and I don't believe is illegal in the US, however it degrades very easily into psilocin if stored incorrectly so can be dicey to have since psilocin itself is still illegal.
- _yrst 5y ago
  Erowid dosage pages can be helpful: https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml vs. https://erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_dose.shtm...
amelius 5y ago
Isn't uptake through digestive tract unreliable? Mental disorders require extremely precise dosing, therefore probably should administer intravenously.
- 5y ago