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> But are there any other reasons, technical or otherwise, why people don't seem to use VSCode for things beyond editing code? The best answer I've seen to thi

> But are there any other reasons, technical or otherwise, why people don't seem to use VSCode for things beyond editing code? The best answer I've seen to this question is https://www.murilopereira.com/the-values-of-emacs-the-neovim-revolution-and-the-vscode-gorilla/ https://www.murilopereira.com/the-values-of-emacs-the-neovim... Amongst other things, it lists different values that each tool prioritizes, and how "Core values are self-reinforcing. They attract like-minded people, who will then defend them." Emacs: Extensibility, Freedom, Introspectability, Keyboard centrism, Stability, Text centrism. VSCode: Approachability, Integration, Maintainability, Progressiveness, Velocity. That is, even if VS Code achieves technical parity with Emacs (wrt introspectibility/extensibility), its community might not prioritize using VS Code for things beyond editing code. Or maybe it will. These things are difficult to predict!

WithinReason 5y ago
This is a great point, however the number of users of VSCode is so high (71% of StackOverflow users in 2021 [0]) that it's unlikely that it's only attracting users with a certain set of values. [0]: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-popular-technologies-integrated-development-environment https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-...
jgilias 5y ago
Hey, thanks for the link, it was a really nice read!
deepstack 5y ago
> Velocity Hmm not so sure about that. The main reason that I have not complete switched over to VS Code, is that it feel klunky and I'm using a 16GB macbook pro, not top of the line, but something where I should expect a code editor would feel not so klunky.
- kangaroopouch 5y ago
  In the context of the linked article "velocity" is defined to be "Short and focused release cycles, aligned personpower, leveraging the community effectively". I think VS Code exhibits this value.
spacemanmatt 5y ago
I started out with VSCode hoping it would be an easier, more modern Emacs. Calva was the closest thing to a good experience I could get. Now I am switching to Emacs for CIDER and generally the Emacs ecosystem. I doubt I'll ever not use vim when I'm working/thinking in systems mode, though. The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me.
- kangaroopouch 5y ago
  If you're interested in a reliably-quick-to-start editor, and prefer the Emacs ecosystem, consider https://www.gnu.org/software/zile/ https://www.gnu.org/software/zile/ . It's built for that purpose.
  - yaantc 5y ago
    I used to use a light editor for quick edits, jed, but now I use Emacs too. It turns out that Emacs in text mode without a full configuration (so: "emacs -Q -nw") starts nearly instantly on a few years old laptop, so I just aliased jed to this command. It's about ~110ms for start+exit, good enough for me. And all of Emacs is there, even my init if needed.
- loxias 5y ago
  > The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me. Amen to that. That's why I use emacs. ;) Just timed it myself, started and ready to go in 120ms. Pretty sure we can shave more time off that.
  - kamaal 5y ago
    >>Just timed it myself, started and ready to go in 120ms. Let me get this straight. You plan to code for hours, and your biggest concern at this point in time is your editor takes 1 - 2 seconds more to start? A second is 1.666666666667% of a minute. And 0.02777777777% of an hour. Just how much more productive are you getting by saving this time? On the other hand emacs is notorious for making users spend days to get a decent working set up. And even that's more like bad vscode clone than anything else.
siproprio 5y ago
Let me correct you on one thing: > VSCode: Approachability, Integration, Maintainability, Progressiveness, Velocity. VSCode: Microsoft, Approachability, ~Integration~, ~Maintainability~, ~Progressiveness~, ~Velocity~.

WithinReason 5y ago

This is a great point, however the number of users of VSCode is so high (71% of StackOverflow users in 2021 [0]) that it's unlikely that it's only attracting users with a certain set of values. [0]: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-popular-technologies-integrated-development-environment https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-...

jgilias 5y ago

Hey, thanks for the link, it was a really nice read!

deepstack 5y ago

> Velocity Hmm not so sure about that. The main reason that I have not complete switched over to VS Code, is that it feel klunky and I'm using a 16GB macbook pro, not top of the line, but something where I should expect a code editor would feel not so klunky.

kangaroopouch 5y ago
In the context of the linked article "velocity" is defined to be "Short and focused release cycles, aligned personpower, leveraging the community effectively". I think VS Code exhibits this value.

spacemanmatt 5y ago

I started out with VSCode hoping it would be an easier, more modern Emacs. Calva was the closest thing to a good experience I could get. Now I am switching to Emacs for CIDER and generally the Emacs ecosystem. I doubt I'll ever not use vim when I'm working/thinking in systems mode, though. The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me.

kangaroopouch 5y ago
If you're interested in a reliably-quick-to-start editor, and prefer the Emacs ecosystem, consider https://www.gnu.org/software/zile/ https://www.gnu.org/software/zile/ . It's built for that purpose.
- yaantc 5y ago
  I used to use a light editor for quick edits, jed, but now I use Emacs too. It turns out that Emacs in text mode without a full configuration (so: "emacs -Q -nw") starts nearly instantly on a few years old laptop, so I just aliased jed to this command. It's about ~110ms for start+exit, good enough for me. And all of Emacs is there, even my init if needed.
loxias 5y ago
> The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me. Amen to that. That's why I use emacs. ;) Just timed it myself, started and ready to go in 120ms. Pretty sure we can shave more time off that.
- kamaal 5y ago
  >>Just timed it myself, started and ready to go in 120ms. Let me get this straight. You plan to code for hours, and your biggest concern at this point in time is your editor takes 1 - 2 seconds more to start? A second is 1.666666666667% of a minute. And 0.02777777777% of an hour. Just how much more productive are you getting by saving this time? On the other hand emacs is notorious for making users spend days to get a decent working set up. And even that's more like bad vscode clone than anything else.

siproprio 5y ago

Let me correct you on one thing: > VSCode: Approachability, Integration, Maintainability, Progressiveness, Velocity. VSCode: Microsoft, Approachability, ~Integration~, ~Maintainability~, ~Progressiveness~, ~Velocity~.