11 ms·

If you remove the speed limiter you are riding an electric motorcycle, which needs to be somewhere other than with pedestrians and cyclists.

zip1234 5y ago
Except in many places pedestrians and cyclists have no choice but to share the road with cars and I don't see too many people clamoring for speed limiters on those...
- multjoy 5y ago
  If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?
  - paiute 5y ago
    only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.
    - sgarman 5y ago
      I don't think this is a fair take. People on normal bikes do cause problems because of the reason you listed but it's surely not ALL of the problems.
    - Arainach 5y ago
      Because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, and 25mph is 56% more energy which is a huge problem in a collision with a pedestrian or a crash. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain... It's also a big issue with response time and with the rate pedestrians expect bicycles to be travelling. You shouldn't bike on the sidewalk because no one is looking for vehicles going more than a few miles per hour (walking). You shouldn't bike more than 15mph on trails/lanes shared with pedestrians for similar reasons. 20mph is a tolerable compromise, 25mph is flat out dangerous.
      - pmontra 5y ago
        This matches my experience on shared pedestrian / bicycles low density roads in countryside. 30 km/h (a little less than 20 mph) is the limit between okish and dangerous. Actually pedestrians start to worry a little before that speed but of course half of them don't see the bicycle approaching. The cyclist see them a long time before overtaking and assesses whether they are safe to pass or require a slow down.
      - paiute 5y ago
        This is a good example of how we get bad laws... Should overweight cyclists be forced to have a lower speed? I can still get my ebike to 25 mph down hill, I would never dream of passing a pedestrian at that speed. I picked 24.5 for a reason and not 25 BTW.
    - White_Wolf 5y ago
      tbh I wouldn't mind the peed limit being higher but introduce some sort of driving lic and exam for it with periodic re-testing. Also re-testing should be mandatory for car drivers too. Both theory, practical, reflex testing. I ride a bicycle, bike and drive a car and the ammount of crazies on all sides leaves me speachless sometimes. I see cyclist cutting off cars and shooting into a roundabout just because cars will avoid them. I actually had a crash becasue of a retard like this and I chased him until I caught him. Took him to court and won. On the other side of the coin - I see cars taking turns without checking their mirrors, overtaking while in a queue without making sure no cyclists are passing by. Smashed a bike to bits because of 1 twat. His insurance paid for the bike and treatment. P.S. I'm not a perfect driver but people these days lack consideration and defensive driving(even the notion of it is foreign now)
      - nradov 5y ago
        I don't understand what you're asking for. There are already electric motorcycles which don't have artificial speed limiters. Those require a motorcycle license and can be driven on any road.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        They also generally have 7 times the vattey capacity and at least 15 times the power output. The speed limiter is not the main difference.
    - mrep 5y ago
      So true. Normal bikers break the rules of the road by far the most in my experience because god forbid they have to stop and start again.
jacquesm 5y ago
That depends on the conditions. If you adapt to the conditions then that would be fine, if you don't then even at normal e-bike speeds you are a danger. I never got why we have 200 Mph cars but a moped that can go 30 over the legal limit gets confiscated.
- nradov 5y ago
  Only a tiny handful of expensive sports cars can actually reach 200 mph. While there a few limited exceptions, in most jurisdictions anyone caught driving at 200 mph will be arrested and the car impounded.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    In this context 200 or 150 mph are the same: illegal, and instant death if anything goes wrong.
- multjoy 5y ago
  Because a moped that can go 30 over the legal limit is no longer a moped, it is a motorcycle and needs to be taxed, insured and tested as such.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    My e-bike is taxed, insured and tested to the same standards as a light e-moto (in Germany, a Riese & Mueller 'charger'). The only difference with the bicycle version is the speed limiter setting.
    - multjoy 5y ago
      That and it's not a motorcycle so you're not going to get stuck on for riding it on a bike path, surely?
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        No, I'm not allowed to ride it on a bike path. I am allowed to ride it on a combined bike/moped path.
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
>with pedestrians Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? I bike 24/7 but this seems crazy. Bicycles needs their own, separate, protected paths, at the road level. Period.
- fknorangesite 5y ago
  > Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? Not sidewalks per se, but combined, mixed-used paths are very common. Whether this is a good idea or not is another issue.
- pcwalton 5y ago
  Yes. Several cities in the Bay Area have shared sidewalks; e.g. Embarcadero in San Francisco, and Foster City has a ton of them. I don't know of any cities that allow all sidewalks to be used by bikes, but I'm sure some exist.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Embarcadero's a special case since it's so wide, and barely has car traffic crossing it. (It borders the ocean on one side.) San Francisco has many protected bike lanes and if your route is on those exclusively, it's very nice.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  I live in a city that explicitly allows cyclists to bike on sidewalks, and I'd never bike otherwise. One time I tried road-riding the mere 15m home from the gym and had 3 close calls from drivers. We also have separate, protected paths at the road level. Anybody who wants me to ride on the road can send me a blank check to cover medical expenses in the case of an accident if they are so invested in my riding according to their preferences.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    Luckily it's illegal to ride a bicycle on sidewalks in my country and yet many people do it at half the speed and half the comfort of what they would have on the road (sidewalks are not maintained to be smooth and are cluttered by all sort of things and people.) I'm a cyclist and I really hate them. If they are afraid to ride on the road, it sucks for them but it's only one of the things people would like to do and cannot do. Walk, catch a bus, drive a car.
TrevorJ 5y ago
More specifically, you have and electric motorcycle with no traction, no safety features and an untrained rider.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  Riding a motorcycle is easier than a bike. In a motorcycle there’s three evasive actions: brake, accelerate or swerve. On a bicycle there’s only two, and that lack of speed is exactly what causes some of the riskiest behaviors from motorists (e.g. close passing.)
  - TrevorJ 5y ago
    I think it's charitable to say there are even two fully useful evasive actions on a bike. An absolutely tiny contact patch and low weight mean that there's simply not enough traction for any sort of aggressive change in direction or speed without ending up off the bike. What's pernicious about this is, that under normal circumstances most people won't have ridden a bike past these limits, maybe ever, so the first time you realize your bike can go from well behaved to on the pavement instantly is the worst time for it to happen.
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      It depends on the bike though. I mountain bike with large soft tires, good suspensions, and low air pressure have quite a lot of grip compared to a road bike with tiny super hard tires. You can do a lot of crazy things. But I agree that the average commuter bike has low limits.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "the first time you realize your bike can go from well behaved to on the pavement instantly is the worst time for it to happen." I am always afraid of falling of the bike while there is a bus driving behind me. Could happed with a pothole, random garbage/bottle of the road, etv
      - 5y ago

zip1234 5y ago

Except in many places pedestrians and cyclists have no choice but to share the road with cars and I don't see too many people clamoring for speed limiters on those...

multjoy 5y ago
If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?
- paiute 5y ago
  only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.
  - sgarman 5y ago
    I don't think this is a fair take. People on normal bikes do cause problems because of the reason you listed but it's surely not ALL of the problems.
  - Arainach 5y ago
    Because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, and 25mph is 56% more energy which is a huge problem in a collision with a pedestrian or a crash. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain... It's also a big issue with response time and with the rate pedestrians expect bicycles to be travelling. You shouldn't bike on the sidewalk because no one is looking for vehicles going more than a few miles per hour (walking). You shouldn't bike more than 15mph on trails/lanes shared with pedestrians for similar reasons. 20mph is a tolerable compromise, 25mph is flat out dangerous.
    - pmontra 5y ago
      This matches my experience on shared pedestrian / bicycles low density roads in countryside. 30 km/h (a little less than 20 mph) is the limit between okish and dangerous. Actually pedestrians start to worry a little before that speed but of course half of them don't see the bicycle approaching. The cyclist see them a long time before overtaking and assesses whether they are safe to pass or require a slow down.
    - paiute 5y ago
      This is a good example of how we get bad laws... Should overweight cyclists be forced to have a lower speed? I can still get my ebike to 25 mph down hill, I would never dream of passing a pedestrian at that speed. I picked 24.5 for a reason and not 25 BTW.
  - White_Wolf 5y ago
    tbh I wouldn't mind the peed limit being higher but introduce some sort of driving lic and exam for it with periodic re-testing. Also re-testing should be mandatory for car drivers too. Both theory, practical, reflex testing. I ride a bicycle, bike and drive a car and the ammount of crazies on all sides leaves me speachless sometimes. I see cyclist cutting off cars and shooting into a roundabout just because cars will avoid them. I actually had a crash becasue of a retard like this and I chased him until I caught him. Took him to court and won. On the other side of the coin - I see cars taking turns without checking their mirrors, overtaking while in a queue without making sure no cyclists are passing by. Smashed a bike to bits because of 1 twat. His insurance paid for the bike and treatment. P.S. I'm not a perfect driver but people these days lack consideration and defensive driving(even the notion of it is foreign now)
    - nradov 5y ago
      I don't understand what you're asking for. There are already electric motorcycles which don't have artificial speed limiters. Those require a motorcycle license and can be driven on any road.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        They also generally have 7 times the vattey capacity and at least 15 times the power output. The speed limiter is not the main difference.
  - mrep 5y ago
    So true. Normal bikers break the rules of the road by far the most in my experience because god forbid they have to stop and start again.

jacquesm 5y ago

That depends on the conditions. If you adapt to the conditions then that would be fine, if you don't then even at normal e-bike speeds you are a danger. I never got why we have 200 Mph cars but a moped that can go 30 over the legal limit gets confiscated.

nradov 5y ago
Only a tiny handful of expensive sports cars can actually reach 200 mph. While there a few limited exceptions, in most jurisdictions anyone caught driving at 200 mph will be arrested and the car impounded.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  In this context 200 or 150 mph are the same: illegal, and instant death if anything goes wrong.
multjoy 5y ago
Because a moped that can go 30 over the legal limit is no longer a moped, it is a motorcycle and needs to be taxed, insured and tested as such.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  My e-bike is taxed, insured and tested to the same standards as a light e-moto (in Germany, a Riese & Mueller 'charger'). The only difference with the bicycle version is the speed limiter setting.
  - multjoy 5y ago
    That and it's not a motorcycle so you're not going to get stuck on for riding it on a bike path, surely?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      No, I'm not allowed to ride it on a bike path. I am allowed to ride it on a combined bike/moped path.

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

>with pedestrians Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? I bike 24/7 but this seems crazy. Bicycles needs their own, separate, protected paths, at the road level. Period.

fknorangesite 5y ago
> Do some cities actually let cyclists bike on sidewalks? Not sidewalks per se, but combined, mixed-used paths are very common. Whether this is a good idea or not is another issue.
pcwalton 5y ago
Yes. Several cities in the Bay Area have shared sidewalks; e.g. Embarcadero in San Francisco, and Foster City has a ton of them. I don't know of any cities that allow all sidewalks to be used by bikes, but I'm sure some exist.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Embarcadero's a special case since it's so wide, and barely has car traffic crossing it. (It borders the ocean on one side.) San Francisco has many protected bike lanes and if your route is on those exclusively, it's very nice.
silicon2401 5y ago
I live in a city that explicitly allows cyclists to bike on sidewalks, and I'd never bike otherwise. One time I tried road-riding the mere 15m home from the gym and had 3 close calls from drivers. We also have separate, protected paths at the road level. Anybody who wants me to ride on the road can send me a blank check to cover medical expenses in the case of an accident if they are so invested in my riding according to their preferences.
- pmontra 5y ago
  Luckily it's illegal to ride a bicycle on sidewalks in my country and yet many people do it at half the speed and half the comfort of what they would have on the road (sidewalks are not maintained to be smooth and are cluttered by all sort of things and people.) I'm a cyclist and I really hate them. If they are afraid to ride on the road, it sucks for them but it's only one of the things people would like to do and cannot do. Walk, catch a bus, drive a car.

TrevorJ 5y ago

More specifically, you have and electric motorcycle with no traction, no safety features and an untrained rider.

jdavis703 5y ago
Riding a motorcycle is easier than a bike. In a motorcycle there’s three evasive actions: brake, accelerate or swerve. On a bicycle there’s only two, and that lack of speed is exactly what causes some of the riskiest behaviors from motorists (e.g. close passing.)
- TrevorJ 5y ago
  I think it's charitable to say there are even two fully useful evasive actions on a bike. An absolutely tiny contact patch and low weight mean that there's simply not enough traction for any sort of aggressive change in direction or speed without ending up off the bike. What's pernicious about this is, that under normal circumstances most people won't have ridden a bike past these limits, maybe ever, so the first time you realize your bike can go from well behaved to on the pavement instantly is the worst time for it to happen.
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    It depends on the bike though. I mountain bike with large soft tires, good suspensions, and low air pressure have quite a lot of grip compared to a road bike with tiny super hard tires. You can do a lot of crazy things. But I agree that the average commuter bike has low limits.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "the first time you realize your bike can go from well behaved to on the pavement instantly is the worst time for it to happen." I am always afraid of falling of the bike while there is a bus driving behind me. Could happed with a pothole, random garbage/bottle of the road, etv
    - 5y ago