7 ms·

Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. Maybe some are, but I think our minds should be initi

Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. Maybe some are, but I think our minds should be initialized to “given the terror you consciously and actively spread, please provide evidence for any terrorist accusations”.

yonixw 5y ago
> Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. > accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. If they hurt bystanding civilians (and they do) or funnel money for it (and they do) there is nothing wrong with that. > Maybe some are They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. > please provide evidence for any terrorist accusations They do. Israel have problems. It should solve them. Hyperbolic discussion will never achieve it.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. But sending an army unit with an order "break the village" which results in shock grenades being dropped into a cradle with the baby inside does qualify them as being terrorized. Note: I'm Israeli and was working with people who got those orders and carried them out during their service.
  - DSingularity 5y ago
    Thank you for your courage to say that. It is also funny how often people forget why the riots start in the first place. So often it seems to be that the riots are precipitated by egregious abuse by settlers/army/police/Israeli policy. Abuse the people long enough and they will rage.
    - helge9210 5y ago
      There was a case couple of years ago near Salfit (Palestinian town near the end of the road 5). First, someone "shot at security vehicle". I remember telling my wife after reading the news: "See what happens next". Of course, the barged into Salfit to "retrieve video recordings from CCTV cameras" shooting some mid-aged man in front of his family. It was already clear, what will happen next. In couple of days 19 y.o. from Salfit approached IDF soldiers on nearby intersection, pulled the knife, stabbed one of the soldiers (19 y.o. musician from Beer Sheva), took his rifle, shot some more soldiers, then grabbed a car, shot some more settlers and escaped. He was later found and executed on the spot by army forces. Two teenagers dead only because prime minister needed some escalation to distract population from the trial. Did they find the original shooter, who "attacked" security vehicle?
      - FridayoLeary 5y ago
        >It was already clear, what will happen next. Is it? The attempted murder of innocent people? Is that the sort of behaviour that should be accepted and tolerated? because it sounds like you are saying that.
        int_19h 5y ago
        It shouldn't be accepted and tolerated, but it's disingenuous to discuss it without mentioning the reasons why it happened in the first place.
        CapricornNoble 5y ago
        I think he's saying the turn of events is tragically predictable, and we SHOULDN'T accept or tolerate it. That was my reading, anyway.
        helge9210 5y ago
        > The attempted murder of innocent people? In your opinion, what should a teenager do after witnessing extrajudicial execution of his relative by occupying army?
  - yonixw 5y ago
    1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. 2) Searching google for "shock grenades on a girl israel" will show you first a Jewish Ultra-Orthodox girl getting hit around a corona protest last year: https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 So this is a police brutality issue, not a Palestine issue. 3) Based on your previous comments- "Hamas is an ally of Israel in Gaza" I'm thinking you are just out of the loop.
    - helge9210 5y ago
      > 1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. No, my colleague actually spent time in jail for military crimes. > 2) Searching google for You get what you search for. > you are just out of the loop Or, what is more probable, you are just pushing Hasbara.
      - joelbluminator 5y ago
        Hasbara Hasbara. When you're pushing Palestinian narrative you're progressive. When you're pushing zionist narrative you're an evil Jew Hasbara troll.
        DSingularity 5y ago
        Yeah, except the hasbara efforts are real and well documented. Pretty disingenuous for you to try and present OP in such a way.
        joelbluminator 5y ago
        Every country in the world uses diplomacy and public relations to create a better strategic reality for itself, especially in times of conflict. Israel is no different than the U.S or Australia or the Palestinian Authority for that matter. It's pretty disingenuous of you to call it "Hasbara" when Israel does it as if it's some kind of Israeli phenomena.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towards peace. But before that look closely at a map, Israel has sistematically divided and isolated most Palestinian land in an obvious divide and empera plan.
  - yonixw 5y ago
    1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.
    - VictorPath 5y ago
      > 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza As you mention Hamas, it gives me the opportunity to point out that Israel bankrolled Hamas founder Sheikh Yassin even prior to the founding of Hamas. This was admitted by former military governor of Gaza Yitzhak Segev and other Israeli government and military officials. Israel wanted to undermine secular political Palestinians and empower Islamist political Palestinians. Once successful, they bemoan that the Islamists they funded and worked to empower, have come to power. Incidentally, the EU funded NGOs which Israel are spying on here are mostly secular (and even the militant groups which Israel is claiming the NGOs are affiliated with are secular as well).
      - joelbluminator 5y ago
        Well Israel ended up killing Sheikh Yassin so I don't know about that theory - maybe we can agree Israel did conflicting things? Also - are you saying the Palestinians have zero responsibility for Hamas?
      - 5y ago
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  > They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. Is it a police operation if it is conducted in occupied foreign territory or would that count as military action? > They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. Is every Palestinian who voted for Hamas in the last elections permitted in Palestine in 2006 a terrorist as well?
  - yonixw 5y ago
    > Is every Palestinian who voted .. a terrorist as well? No. But at the same time, If Hamas hides military equipment in a news building where other civilians work, then Hamas is committing a war crime. And Israel has the right to attack this building while taking every action to minimize civilians bystanders casualties. As they did by giving 1hr notice.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      Israel routinely mixes civilian and military operations, particularly in Mossad, and uses civilians as cover for their work. Israel engages in illegal extrajudicial assassinations of civilians, and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention. No evidence has been presented that Hamas was actually hiding military equipment in this news building. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/israel-says-hamas-used-ap-al-jazeera-building-gaza-jam-iron-dome https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/israel-says-ham...
      - helge9210 5y ago
        > and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention This is not true. Military occupation by itself is allowed, but puts certain restrictions on the occupying power. For example, it's forbidden to transfer own population into the occupied territory, which Israel does.
        whimsicalism 5y ago

yonixw 5y ago

> Israel, a country that terrorizes Palestinians on the daily accuses They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. > accuses everyone that fights it as terrorists. If they hurt bystanding civilians (and they do) or funnel money for it (and they do) there is nothing wrong with that. > Maybe some are They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. > please provide evidence for any terrorist accusations They do. Israel have problems. It should solve them. Hyperbolic discussion will never achieve it.

helge9210 5y ago
> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. But sending an army unit with an order "break the village" which results in shock grenades being dropped into a cradle with the baby inside does qualify them as being terrorized. Note: I'm Israeli and was working with people who got those orders and carried them out during their service.
- DSingularity 5y ago
  Thank you for your courage to say that. It is also funny how often people forget why the riots start in the first place. So often it seems to be that the riots are precipitated by egregious abuse by settlers/army/police/Israeli policy. Abuse the people long enough and they will rage.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    There was a case couple of years ago near Salfit (Palestinian town near the end of the road 5). First, someone "shot at security vehicle". I remember telling my wife after reading the news: "See what happens next". Of course, the barged into Salfit to "retrieve video recordings from CCTV cameras" shooting some mid-aged man in front of his family. It was already clear, what will happen next. In couple of days 19 y.o. from Salfit approached IDF soldiers on nearby intersection, pulled the knife, stabbed one of the soldiers (19 y.o. musician from Beer Sheva), took his rifle, shot some more soldiers, then grabbed a car, shot some more settlers and escaped. He was later found and executed on the spot by army forces. Two teenagers dead only because prime minister needed some escalation to distract population from the trial. Did they find the original shooter, who "attacked" security vehicle?
    - FridayoLeary 5y ago
      >It was already clear, what will happen next. Is it? The attempted murder of innocent people? Is that the sort of behaviour that should be accepted and tolerated? because it sounds like you are saying that.
      - int_19h 5y ago
        It shouldn't be accepted and tolerated, but it's disingenuous to discuss it without mentioning the reasons why it happened in the first place.
      - CapricornNoble 5y ago
        I think he's saying the turn of events is tragically predictable, and we SHOULDN'T accept or tolerate it. That was my reading, anyway.
      - helge9210 5y ago
        > The attempted murder of innocent people? In your opinion, what should a teenager do after witnessing extrajudicial execution of his relative by occupying army?
- yonixw 5y ago
  1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. 2) Searching google for "shock grenades on a girl israel" will show you first a Jewish Ultra-Orthodox girl getting hit around a corona protest last year: https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 So this is a police brutality issue, not a Palestine issue. 3) Based on your previous comments- "Hamas is an ally of Israel in Gaza" I'm thinking you are just out of the loop.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    > 1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. No, my colleague actually spent time in jail for military crimes. > 2) Searching google for You get what you search for. > you are just out of the loop Or, what is more probable, you are just pushing Hasbara.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      Hasbara Hasbara. When you're pushing Palestinian narrative you're progressive. When you're pushing zionist narrative you're an evil Jew Hasbara troll.
      - DSingularity 5y ago
        Yeah, except the hasbara efforts are real and well documented. Pretty disingenuous for you to try and present OP in such a way.
        joelbluminator 5y ago
        Every country in the world uses diplomacy and public relations to create a better strategic reality for itself, especially in times of conflict. Israel is no different than the U.S or Australia or the Palestinian Authority for that matter. It's pretty disingenuous of you to call it "Hasbara" when Israel does it as if it's some kind of Israeli phenomena.
tartoran 5y ago
Ever wondered why those people are protesting? If you only follow the history of the region you’d quickly realize that Israel did (and does) terrorize their neighbors who in turn retaliated and the vicious cycle of vendettas on eachother continues to this day. What is realy cool about Israel is that they’re a democratic country and a large part of their country denounces all this violence, there is a way forward towards peace. But before that look closely at a map, Israel has sistematically divided and isolated most Palestinian land in an obvious divide and empera plan.
- yonixw 5y ago
  1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.
  - VictorPath 5y ago
    > 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza As you mention Hamas, it gives me the opportunity to point out that Israel bankrolled Hamas founder Sheikh Yassin even prior to the founding of Hamas. This was admitted by former military governor of Gaza Yitzhak Segev and other Israeli government and military officials. Israel wanted to undermine secular political Palestinians and empower Islamist political Palestinians. Once successful, they bemoan that the Islamists they funded and worked to empower, have come to power. Incidentally, the EU funded NGOs which Israel are spying on here are mostly secular (and even the militant groups which Israel is claiming the NGOs are affiliated with are secular as well).
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      Well Israel ended up killing Sheikh Yassin so I don't know about that theory - maybe we can agree Israel did conflicting things? Also - are you saying the Palestinians have zero responsibility for Hamas?
    - 5y ago
whimsicalism 5y ago
> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. Is it a police operation if it is conducted in occupied foreign territory or would that count as military action? > They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. Is every Palestinian who voted for Hamas in the last elections permitted in Palestine in 2006 a terrorist as well?
- yonixw 5y ago
  > Is every Palestinian who voted .. a terrorist as well? No. But at the same time, If Hamas hides military equipment in a news building where other civilians work, then Hamas is committing a war crime. And Israel has the right to attack this building while taking every action to minimize civilians bystanders casualties. As they did by giving 1hr notice.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Israel routinely mixes civilian and military operations, particularly in Mossad, and uses civilians as cover for their work. Israel engages in illegal extrajudicial assassinations of civilians, and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention. No evidence has been presented that Hamas was actually hiding military equipment in this news building. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/israel-says-hamas-used-ap-al-jazeera-building-gaza-jam-iron-dome https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/israel-says-ham...
    - helge9210 5y ago
      > and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention This is not true. Military occupation by itself is allowed, but puts certain restrictions on the occupying power. For example, it's forbidden to transfer own population into the occupied territory, which Israel does.
      - whimsicalism 5y ago