4 ms·

Yes, what you said exactly happens, but not often enough to negate the value of opening up the otherwise clammed up candidate. Hopefully, the first part where

Yes, what you said exactly happens, but not often enough to negate the value of opening up the otherwise clammed up candidate. Hopefully, the first part where the human<>human chat happens, the candidate is able to see that the intent is to have a genuine conversation, albeit with a more senior person (aka older) person on the other side. Where I differ from you is the zero-payoff framing. There have been cases where the candidate put me in my place, rightfully so, and ended up getting hired. This is subjective territory, but I actually prefer a candidate that spars. It gives me a chance to explain my position as well as hear his/hers.

harry8 5y ago
Yours looks like a classic "yes but I'm different" response. Maybe you really are different. I couldn't possibly say. Just be aware of it? Or maybe there's a way to have your cake and eat it too? Like put on a stupid hat and say "I'm going to play 'Joe Obnoxious the Arrogant' and be critical, this is not how we talk design around here in general but it cuts us the to the chase about something you know. Stand up to anything you don't like hearing. Back it." Hat on. "Why did you do something so sucky as ..." And just maybe there's like a big smile, but heavy content? Eh just a thought. The way you described it would have me thinking I don't want to be there in the room, let alone working with, beside, for, in charge of, you. But I can't and hear the tone of what you describe so who knows..?
- slingnow 5y ago
  It sounds like the OPs method not only allows people to shine by diving into what they've built, but it would also filter out people like yourself, who are so unbelievably sensitive that it would be a nightmare to work around all of your triggers.
  - harry8 5y ago
    Possibly so. But it's a hell of an assumption to make and not a very kind one. Maybe you were triggered yourself and so that's not entirely fair.
- Sammi 5y ago
  This does not seems like a generous interpretation of what op said. The slight that op mentioned could have been surgical and precise, and just enough to kick off a conversation, and not enough to trample the interviewee.
  - harry8 5y ago
    Well you don't know the interviewee to make any assumption at all. I've given /my/ honest response to the description of it. Framed as a question, while noting some of the shortcomings of that. Then provided a suggestion of how OP might get what they want without causing the problem I suggested might, and OP confirmed actually does, occur. So yeah I think that's pretty productive and positive as these conversations go. I don't see you adding anything of utility or value to it by suggesting bad faith or lack of generosity that I don't think exists on either side. "Surgical and precise" slights by definition can't be either from a position of ignorance, about the person you're slighting or the context and constraints of the work they've done. But you might get lucky. Even without luck it might not matter, maybe nobody else in the world would tell you to boil your head other than me? And nobody whose opinion or work you'd care about? YMMV.

harry8 5y ago

Yours looks like a classic "yes but I'm different" response. Maybe you really are different. I couldn't possibly say. Just be aware of it? Or maybe there's a way to have your cake and eat it too? Like put on a stupid hat and say "I'm going to play 'Joe Obnoxious the Arrogant' and be critical, this is not how we talk design around here in general but it cuts us the to the chase about something you know. Stand up to anything you don't like hearing. Back it." Hat on. "Why did you do something so sucky as ..." And just maybe there's like a big smile, but heavy content? Eh just a thought. The way you described it would have me thinking I don't want to be there in the room, let alone working with, beside, for, in charge of, you. But I can't and hear the tone of what you describe so who knows..?

slingnow 5y ago
It sounds like the OPs method not only allows people to shine by diving into what they've built, but it would also filter out people like yourself, who are so unbelievably sensitive that it would be a nightmare to work around all of your triggers.
- harry8 5y ago
  Possibly so. But it's a hell of an assumption to make and not a very kind one. Maybe you were triggered yourself and so that's not entirely fair.
Sammi 5y ago
This does not seems like a generous interpretation of what op said. The slight that op mentioned could have been surgical and precise, and just enough to kick off a conversation, and not enough to trample the interviewee.
- harry8 5y ago
  Well you don't know the interviewee to make any assumption at all. I've given /my/ honest response to the description of it. Framed as a question, while noting some of the shortcomings of that. Then provided a suggestion of how OP might get what they want without causing the problem I suggested might, and OP confirmed actually does, occur. So yeah I think that's pretty productive and positive as these conversations go. I don't see you adding anything of utility or value to it by suggesting bad faith or lack of generosity that I don't think exists on either side. "Surgical and precise" slights by definition can't be either from a position of ignorance, about the person you're slighting or the context and constraints of the work they've done. But you might get lucky. Even without luck it might not matter, maybe nobody else in the world would tell you to boil your head other than me? And nobody whose opinion or work you'd care about? YMMV.