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A wish to survive future infections? Natural immunity is more effective than vaccine immunity. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228 https://ww

A wish to survive future infections? Natural immunity is more effective than vaccine immunity. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114228 Solidarity? Haha, this is America My grandparents are all dead, but I don’t think my grandparents who lived through the Great Depression would want me to take the risk of heart inflammation as a young man, so they could potentially live a bit longer. In fact my grandmas would probably take a bullet to spare me health concerns. Should the young be sacrificed for the old? WTF!? Given that burning fossil fuels is harmful, I demand that everyone stop burning fossil fuels because it kills some people! https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/vehicle-emissions-deaths/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/vehicle-e...

nuerow 5y ago
> A wish to survive future infections? Natural immunity is more effective than vaccine immunity. No, that's not true at all. You got it exactly backwards. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... I wonder why you cherry-pick obscure sources from other countries while your own CDC quite clearly refutes your claims. Moreover, you do not need to pick between either getting infected or taking the vaccine, so your whole argument makes no sense from the start.
- tomp 5y ago
  You're misinterpreting the study; it compares previously infected with previously infected AND vaccinated. It doesn't say anything about previously infected VS vaccinated but not infected (and there are studies that claim "natural" immunity is more effective; hell even original J&J trial data suggests that!)
  - bigodbiel 5y ago
    That study gets misleadingly cited so many times. Luckily for the CDC they just recently happened to get data proving that naive vaccinees are 5x better protected than recovered unvaccinated against infection. The study is horrible, with so many issues and conflict of interests... but who cares, the CDC published it, it even has a shiny banner for news media to share around!
Aeolun 5y ago
> Should the young be sacrificed for the old? WTF!? That’s a misrepresentation. Should the young take a hit of -0.1 disability adjusted life years to give the rest of the population +1.0? Absolutely. > Given that burning fossil fuels is harmful, I demand that everyone stop burning fossil fuels because it kills some people! Good news. We’re working on this. Unfortunately it’s not as easy as giving everyone in the country two jabs.
- swiley 5y ago
  >Absolutely Even if your numbers (which you've pulled out of your ass) are correct, how are you justifying this?
- newsclues 5y ago
  I don’t buy your moral argument that the young should suffer disability for old people to live longer. Ban ICE engines today, make everyone buy a Tesla. It’s possible, just like you say it’s possible to force everyone to get vaccinated. There are costs to it, not everyone wants to pay those costs! But it can be done!
ziml77 5y ago
My grandfather who lost a brother to polio and himself had to live the rest of his life with a weakened heart would absolutely want people to get vaccinated. And yes, fossil fuels are a health issue. Combined with the massive climate effects, it's good reason to try to stop burning them.
- newsclues 5y ago
  My grandma lived under fascism in Germany and fled the communists. I am very afraid that we are heading towards an authoritarian state that is the best (worst) aspects of the most terrifying ideological empires (Nazis and communists).

nuerow 5y ago

> A wish to survive future infections? Natural immunity is more effective than vaccine immunity. No, that's not true at all. You got it exactly backwards. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... I wonder why you cherry-pick obscure sources from other countries while your own CDC quite clearly refutes your claims. Moreover, you do not need to pick between either getting infected or taking the vaccine, so your whole argument makes no sense from the start.

tomp 5y ago
You're misinterpreting the study; it compares previously infected with previously infected AND vaccinated. It doesn't say anything about previously infected VS vaccinated but not infected (and there are studies that claim "natural" immunity is more effective; hell even original J&J trial data suggests that!)
- bigodbiel 5y ago
  That study gets misleadingly cited so many times. Luckily for the CDC they just recently happened to get data proving that naive vaccinees are 5x better protected than recovered unvaccinated against infection. The study is horrible, with so many issues and conflict of interests... but who cares, the CDC published it, it even has a shiny banner for news media to share around!

Aeolun 5y ago

> Should the young be sacrificed for the old? WTF!? That’s a misrepresentation. Should the young take a hit of -0.1 disability adjusted life years to give the rest of the population +1.0? Absolutely. > Given that burning fossil fuels is harmful, I demand that everyone stop burning fossil fuels because it kills some people! Good news. We’re working on this. Unfortunately it’s not as easy as giving everyone in the country two jabs.

swiley 5y ago
>Absolutely Even if your numbers (which you've pulled out of your ass) are correct, how are you justifying this?
newsclues 5y ago
I don’t buy your moral argument that the young should suffer disability for old people to live longer. Ban ICE engines today, make everyone buy a Tesla. It’s possible, just like you say it’s possible to force everyone to get vaccinated. There are costs to it, not everyone wants to pay those costs! But it can be done!

ziml77 5y ago

My grandfather who lost a brother to polio and himself had to live the rest of his life with a weakened heart would absolutely want people to get vaccinated. And yes, fossil fuels are a health issue. Combined with the massive climate effects, it's good reason to try to stop burning them.

newsclues 5y ago
My grandma lived under fascism in Germany and fled the communists. I am very afraid that we are heading towards an authoritarian state that is the best (worst) aspects of the most terrifying ideological empires (Nazis and communists).