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Realistically the risk is that everything surrounding the vaccine is and was extremely suspicious. I've never had a vaccine before where the nurse urged me to k

by perth 5y ago

Realistically the risk is that everything surrounding the vaccine is and was extremely suspicious. I've never had a vaccine before where the nurse urged me to keep moving my arm for the remainder of the day. Realistically the clotting of the vaccines was a real issue due to the poor testing, and I'm not sure if it's still a problem because I haven't heard about it being talked about for a while. In addition, there were potential risks known about the vaccine via research financed by Pfizer for months after it was released that were not present in the media or on any waivers for months after the potential interactions began appearing in lab tests, and the information was not effectively delivered to people who got the vaccine or considered the vaccine. I've seen the heart issues mentioned by people in the comments, what I haven't seen is that Pfizer financed lab research on samples of lung and heart tissue and found a potential for interaction that was never told to anyone until it became a problem. Then we can talk about how the vaccine companies got immunity from being sued if people had any problems down the road from it. [1] September 2020: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320520308560 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432052... [2] March 2021: https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/fca-2020-0188 https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/fca-2020-018... [3] February 2021: https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1096/fj.202002662R https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1096/fj.20... [4] January 2021: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ ^ Not all optimal links but they are what I pulled from a quick search on Google Scholar regarding the subject. All date prior to wide discussion on potential issues caused by the vaccination.

nuerow 5y ago
> Realistically the risk is that everything surrounding the vaccine is and was extremely suspicious. I've never had a vaccine before where the nurse urged me to keep moving my arm for the remainder of the day. This is the very first time I ever saw anyone make this extraordinary claim, or anything close to it. Practically everyone I know is fully vaccinated and there was absolutely no reference to any thing remotely like that. Ever. At all. Personally, the only out of the ordinary thing I experienced was getting a leaflet with a FAQ on the vaccines. Other than this, I sat down, took the jab, got up, went to the waiting room for a bit, and afterwards went on with my daily life. Boring as hell, and happened on both jabs. I'm really skeptical regarding your claim, to the point I doubt it ever happened. Do you happen to have any way, other than your word, to back it up? > Realistically the clotting of the vaccines was a real issue due to the poor testing, and I'm not sure if it's still a problem because I haven't heard about it being talked about for a while. There is nothing realistic about your claim. Entire countries have taken the vaccine and, even though there are rare cases where patients react poorly to the vaccine, the scenario you've depicted is not factual or grounded on reality. Do you actually have anything that supports your extraordinary claim, or is this something you believe in in spite of evidence?
- perth 5y ago
  Added source links to my post from links I pulled from Google Scholar. Not all are perfectly relevant but in terms of potential known but not discussed impacts I suggest [3] from February 2021 or [4] from January 2021 to have a look at which discusses the potential for heart and lung issues from the vaccine, alongside the need for booster shots, which were noted during the development before the mass deployment. In terms of my visit, all I can really say is I got the vaccine at the Cleveland Clinic in May 2021, I don't really have any hard evidence of what happened during my visit other than my vaccination card. Also in terms of the clotting I'm surprised you haven't heard of it? (not Google Scholar links, it's just that it's on many news sources from a quick Google search) https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/blood-clots-covid https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/blood-clots-covid https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2 https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-... https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/blood-clotting-covid19.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/bloo...
  - nuerow 5y ago
    > Added source links to my post from links I pulled from Google Scholar. Sorry, you dumped a bunch of links but none of them seem to be related to any of your claims. Can you explain the relationship between any of your links and the points you tried to make? Because dumping a bunch of unrelated links not only does not work as a reference but also feels like something done in bad faith[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
    - perth 5y ago
      Sure thing. The links are summarized research btw, you can get through them all in 2 minutes each. from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ "The challenge for modern vaccinology is to be able to provoke all the requisite steps leading to immune system activation in vivo, and to provide a non-virulent, harmless type of a given agent capable of generating a strong and adequate immune response tailored against specific viral attack (Moser and Leo, 2010). Thus, some questions arise regarding the development of the vaccine (see Table 1 for current development state of COVID-19 vaccines) that will be administered to billions of people at risk of COVID-19 infection." | v "As mentioned earlier, ACE2 is the route of SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, this receptor plays a vital role in both innate and adaptive immune responses by modulating the antigen present antigen cells that interact with T cells to initiate defense initiatives (Bernstein et al., 2018). This receptor of transmembrane protease acts in the conversion of angiotensin 1-8 (Ang II) to angiotensin 1-7 (Ang 1-7), prompting diuresis/natriuresis, preserving renal function, and attenuating cardiac and vascular reformation (Vickers et al., 2002; Santos et al., 2008; Zhang et al., 2010). ACE2 also has an important role in the nervous system, and disruption of this receptor can trigger neurological disorders (Kabbani and Olds, 2020)." I read this as: depending on the immune response the vaccine creates, it can cause potential damage to various organ systems from https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/blood-clotting-covid19.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/bloo... "In rare cases, antibodies that the body produces as a side effect of the vaccine lead to uncontrolled activation of platelets. This causes both low platelet counts and blood clots to form in unusual areas. VITT is not associated with the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccines. " I read this as: the vaccines have the potential to cause clots, but this isn't proven for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines In terms of the tissue tests in lab by Pfizer, I wasn't able to find the paper I that read on that, so I don't have hard proof of that.
tonfreed 5y ago
I want to know why they felt the need to redact the contents of the contracts they signed with various governments around the world.
ehnto 5y ago
> Then we can talk about how the vaccine companies got immunity from being sued if people had any problems down the road from it. I think this makes sense, given governments were forcing their hand to get it on a fast track process. When you pressure someone to rush something I think it's fair to accept the responsibility for the greater risks rushing it caused, I think that's fair. I would absolutely understand the public suing the government if it turned out that rushing it and forcing everyone to get it early caused issues however.
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
No idea what your nurse was on about, but in my country neither me nor anyone I know was recommended to move their arm. And to my knowledge, there were no clotting incidents at all with Pfizer, only with adenovirus-based vaccines J&J and AstraZeneca (and they were extremely rare, although I still was very happy to get an mRNA vaccine because zero risk is better than very low risk, and they have also turned out to be better in almost every respect).
- perth 5y ago
  I got the vaccine with knowledge of the risks after researching it. The issue is a lot of people did not have knowledge of the risks since it was not in readily available places which caused widespread distrust in the vaccine.

by perth 5y ago

nuerow 5y ago

> Realistically the risk is that everything surrounding the vaccine is and was extremely suspicious. I've never had a vaccine before where the nurse urged me to keep moving my arm for the remainder of the day. This is the very first time I ever saw anyone make this extraordinary claim, or anything close to it. Practically everyone I know is fully vaccinated and there was absolutely no reference to any thing remotely like that. Ever. At all. Personally, the only out of the ordinary thing I experienced was getting a leaflet with a FAQ on the vaccines. Other than this, I sat down, took the jab, got up, went to the waiting room for a bit, and afterwards went on with my daily life. Boring as hell, and happened on both jabs. I'm really skeptical regarding your claim, to the point I doubt it ever happened. Do you happen to have any way, other than your word, to back it up? > Realistically the clotting of the vaccines was a real issue due to the poor testing, and I'm not sure if it's still a problem because I haven't heard about it being talked about for a while. There is nothing realistic about your claim. Entire countries have taken the vaccine and, even though there are rare cases where patients react poorly to the vaccine, the scenario you've depicted is not factual or grounded on reality. Do you actually have anything that supports your extraordinary claim, or is this something you believe in in spite of evidence?

perth 5y ago
Added source links to my post from links I pulled from Google Scholar. Not all are perfectly relevant but in terms of potential known but not discussed impacts I suggest [3] from February 2021 or [4] from January 2021 to have a look at which discusses the potential for heart and lung issues from the vaccine, alongside the need for booster shots, which were noted during the development before the mass deployment. In terms of my visit, all I can really say is I got the vaccine at the Cleveland Clinic in May 2021, I don't really have any hard evidence of what happened during my visit other than my vaccination card. Also in terms of the clotting I'm surprised you haven't heard of it? (not Google Scholar links, it's just that it's on many news sources from a quick Google search) https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/blood-clots-covid https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/blood-clots-covid https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2 https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-... https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/blood-clotting-covid19.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/bloo...
- nuerow 5y ago
  > Added source links to my post from links I pulled from Google Scholar. Sorry, you dumped a bunch of links but none of them seem to be related to any of your claims. Can you explain the relationship between any of your links and the points you tried to make? Because dumping a bunch of unrelated links not only does not work as a reference but also feels like something done in bad faith[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
  - perth 5y ago
    Sure thing. The links are summarized research btw, you can get through them all in 2 minutes each. from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7771841/ "The challenge for modern vaccinology is to be able to provoke all the requisite steps leading to immune system activation in vivo, and to provide a non-virulent, harmless type of a given agent capable of generating a strong and adequate immune response tailored against specific viral attack (Moser and Leo, 2010). Thus, some questions arise regarding the development of the vaccine (see Table 1 for current development state of COVID-19 vaccines) that will be administered to billions of people at risk of COVID-19 infection." | v "As mentioned earlier, ACE2 is the route of SARS-CoV-2 infection. However, this receptor plays a vital role in both innate and adaptive immune responses by modulating the antigen present antigen cells that interact with T cells to initiate defense initiatives (Bernstein et al., 2018). This receptor of transmembrane protease acts in the conversion of angiotensin 1-8 (Ang II) to angiotensin 1-7 (Ang 1-7), prompting diuresis/natriuresis, preserving renal function, and attenuating cardiac and vascular reformation (Vickers et al., 2002; Santos et al., 2008; Zhang et al., 2010). ACE2 also has an important role in the nervous system, and disruption of this receptor can trigger neurological disorders (Kabbani and Olds, 2020)." I read this as: depending on the immune response the vaccine creates, it can cause potential damage to various organ systems from https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/blood-clotting-covid19.php https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2021/07/bloo... "In rare cases, antibodies that the body produces as a side effect of the vaccine lead to uncontrolled activation of platelets. This causes both low platelet counts and blood clots to form in unusual areas. VITT is not associated with the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccines. " I read this as: the vaccines have the potential to cause clots, but this isn't proven for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines In terms of the tissue tests in lab by Pfizer, I wasn't able to find the paper I that read on that, so I don't have hard proof of that.

tonfreed 5y ago

I want to know why they felt the need to redact the contents of the contracts they signed with various governments around the world.

ehnto 5y ago

> Then we can talk about how the vaccine companies got immunity from being sued if people had any problems down the road from it. I think this makes sense, given governments were forcing their hand to get it on a fast track process. When you pressure someone to rush something I think it's fair to accept the responsibility for the greater risks rushing it caused, I think that's fair. I would absolutely understand the public suing the government if it turned out that rushing it and forcing everyone to get it early caused issues however.

Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago

No idea what your nurse was on about, but in my country neither me nor anyone I know was recommended to move their arm. And to my knowledge, there were no clotting incidents at all with Pfizer, only with adenovirus-based vaccines J&J and AstraZeneca (and they were extremely rare, although I still was very happy to get an mRNA vaccine because zero risk is better than very low risk, and they have also turned out to be better in almost every respect).

perth 5y ago
I got the vaccine with knowledge of the risks after researching it. The issue is a lot of people did not have knowledge of the risks since it was not in readily available places which caused widespread distrust in the vaccine.