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>In relation to my current not actually a job job where I do computer shit, I would consider my menial, back breaking, minimum wage first job to be bad. Sorry,

>In relation to my current not actually a job job where I do computer shit, I would consider my menial, back breaking, minimum wage first job to be bad. Sorry, but nearly any skilled job could end up in the "bad job" sector, if your benchmark is "cushy IT job". Even Doctors. They may get paid handsomely, but considering the many years they have to spend grinding away studying and taking exams, and the overtime they have to do (in the public sector) plus the on calls and dealing with many sick people, that aint no cushy job. The easiest cushy job I could think of is tram driver in my city. Don't need to think about steering, just watch the lights, and either hit the gas or the brake pedal, then push the buttons for opening and closing the doors.

xwdv 5y ago
Especially doctors. My doctor asked me the other day if I was working from home. Yup, doing like 4-5 hour days mostly. He was jealous. It’s tough being a doctor all day and though you’re well compensated it’s still so many hours of your life given away to work each day. Really it’s hard for me to imagine any job cushier than working in software in the comfort of your own home. The work can be mentally stimulating when you want it to be and usually isn’t very difficult if you know what you’re doing, and it’s well paid. Thank god most people don’t have the mind or patience for it, else we might be paid far less.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  I can assume that's your experience in your own bubble (in the US maybe?) But where I am in Europe the market is a bit worse and there are companies who will try to squeeze 8 hours worth of coding out of you due to an oversupply of talent and a shortage of innovative companies to work for.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Not the case here in the US.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      I thought so :) I'm envious of you. You should rejoice you live in a market that favors devs so much.
      - mehphp 5y ago
        How often do you see Europeans work remotely for US companies? Is it extremely rare in your experience?
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >Is it extremely rare in your experience? In my experience yes but I live in small country in western Europe that's never on the radar of recruiters from the US, unless they're looking for a holiday destination :). I never found US tech jobs open for remote candidates that were not some off-shore sweatshop kind of slave work looking to undercut the local US market wages with candidates willing to work longer hours for less pay than the local talent. The good US tech companies never put their crown jewels in the hands on remote workers from abroad they haven't already known before or gotten through some internal referral. I'm sure there are a few exceptions and glad to be proven wrong though but that's what the market looks like from my PoV.
        bitexploder 5y ago
        Got any solid devs to refer with good English? I need to hire someone and I’ve been dragging my feet: http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/517498/intertoob-scanner-builder-fullstack-engineer-carve-systems http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/517498/intertoob-scanner-build...
        xwdv 5y ago
        Competitive pay?
        bitexploder 5y ago
        xwdv, the comp range is listed on the job post and it would be straight salary with benefits for a US employee. [can't reply any deeper, just email careers@carvesystems.com and reference this discussion and I will find you].
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  Doctors also work in a highly credentialed industry that ensures that they will always be paid exceedingly well for the entirety of their career. Their job security is second to none. A few of my partner's friends do "social media" operations for a large company and I think they work less than 10 hours a week while getting paid a
WalterBright 5y ago
The boredom of that would make it very difficult for me. It's one reason why I didn't opt to be an airline pilot. Trying to be alert during hours and hours of doing nothing but constantly checking things would be very hard. I felt sorry for the crew that fell asleep and overflew their destination by an hour. They were promptly fired after they landed. While I know they had to be fired, I have a lot of sympathy for them.
- nradov 5y ago
  It's obviously a self selected sample, but the airline pilots I've talked to enjoy flying and don't get bored. Their complaints are more about scheduling and management policies.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    My father was an AF pilot for 20 years. When he retired, I asked him why he didn't become an airline pilot. He called it "boring holes in the air" and said it was just driving a bus. As opposed to flying combat fighters. If the pilots you talked to enjoyed it, that's great. It's just not for my father, nor for me.
- tejohnso 5y ago
  Same! By the time i completed a private pilot license I was already pretty bored with the actual flying. I thought commercial might be interesting with larger and more complex machines but talking to other pilots, it seemed not to be the case. Also, first decade or so was said to be a low paying grind.
exDM69 5y ago
> The easiest cushy job I could think of is tram driver in my city. You are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to drive a tram or any rail vehicle. It doesn't have a simple throttle and brake like your car has. There are two or three independent braking systems and the throttle needs monitoring of the current going into the motors. And on top of the complex systems you are responsible for managing the inertia of tens of tons of steel rolling up and down hill in the middle of traffic. Driving a bus would be much easier.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Sorry, but nearly any skilled job could end up in the "bad job" sector, if your benchmark is "cushy IT job". Even Doctors. They may get paid handsomely, but considering the many years they have to spend grinding away studying and taking exams, and the overtime they have to do (in the public sector) plus the on calls and dealing with many sick people, that aint no cushy job. That is their point. McDonald’s is a bad job because of the bad quality of life at work and low pay. Bad quality of life at work offset by pay, such as with doctors, is not a bad job.
sleepy_keita 5y ago
Maybe in your city? In Japan train drivers are basically forced to act like robots. There's actually an ongoing lawsuit over 56 yen (about $0.50 USD) because a train was 1 minute late.. not arriving at a station, but just entering the yard. https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/05280713556b763ef4f8cf28faeb9bc82090d633 https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/05280713556b763ef4f8cf28fa...

xwdv 5y ago

Especially doctors. My doctor asked me the other day if I was working from home. Yup, doing like 4-5 hour days mostly. He was jealous. It’s tough being a doctor all day and though you’re well compensated it’s still so many hours of your life given away to work each day. Really it’s hard for me to imagine any job cushier than working in software in the comfort of your own home. The work can be mentally stimulating when you want it to be and usually isn’t very difficult if you know what you’re doing, and it’s well paid. Thank god most people don’t have the mind or patience for it, else we might be paid far less.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
I can assume that's your experience in your own bubble (in the US maybe?) But where I am in Europe the market is a bit worse and there are companies who will try to squeeze 8 hours worth of coding out of you due to an oversupply of talent and a shortage of innovative companies to work for.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Not the case here in the US.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    I thought so :) I'm envious of you. You should rejoice you live in a market that favors devs so much.
    - mehphp 5y ago
      How often do you see Europeans work remotely for US companies? Is it extremely rare in your experience?
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        >Is it extremely rare in your experience? In my experience yes but I live in small country in western Europe that's never on the radar of recruiters from the US, unless they're looking for a holiday destination :). I never found US tech jobs open for remote candidates that were not some off-shore sweatshop kind of slave work looking to undercut the local US market wages with candidates willing to work longer hours for less pay than the local talent. The good US tech companies never put their crown jewels in the hands on remote workers from abroad they haven't already known before or gotten through some internal referral. I'm sure there are a few exceptions and glad to be proven wrong though but that's what the market looks like from my PoV.
        bitexploder 5y ago
        Got any solid devs to refer with good English? I need to hire someone and I’ve been dragging my feet: http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/517498/intertoob-scanner-builder-fullstack-engineer-carve-systems http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/517498/intertoob-scanner-build...
        xwdv 5y ago
        Competitive pay?
        bitexploder 5y ago
        xwdv, the comp range is listed on the job post and it would be straight salary with benefits for a US employee. [can't reply any deeper, just email careers@carvesystems.com and reference this discussion and I will find you].
throwaway6734 5y ago
Doctors also work in a highly credentialed industry that ensures that they will always be paid exceedingly well for the entirety of their career. Their job security is second to none. A few of my partner's friends do "social media" operations for a large company and I think they work less than 10 hours a week while getting paid a

WalterBright 5y ago

The boredom of that would make it very difficult for me. It's one reason why I didn't opt to be an airline pilot. Trying to be alert during hours and hours of doing nothing but constantly checking things would be very hard. I felt sorry for the crew that fell asleep and overflew their destination by an hour. They were promptly fired after they landed. While I know they had to be fired, I have a lot of sympathy for them.

nradov 5y ago
It's obviously a self selected sample, but the airline pilots I've talked to enjoy flying and don't get bored. Their complaints are more about scheduling and management policies.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  My father was an AF pilot for 20 years. When he retired, I asked him why he didn't become an airline pilot. He called it "boring holes in the air" and said it was just driving a bus. As opposed to flying combat fighters. If the pilots you talked to enjoyed it, that's great. It's just not for my father, nor for me.
tejohnso 5y ago
Same! By the time i completed a private pilot license I was already pretty bored with the actual flying. I thought commercial might be interesting with larger and more complex machines but talking to other pilots, it seemed not to be the case. Also, first decade or so was said to be a low paying grind.

exDM69 5y ago

> The easiest cushy job I could think of is tram driver in my city. You are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to drive a tram or any rail vehicle. It doesn't have a simple throttle and brake like your car has. There are two or three independent braking systems and the throttle needs monitoring of the current going into the motors. And on top of the complex systems you are responsible for managing the inertia of tens of tons of steel rolling up and down hill in the middle of traffic. Driving a bus would be much easier.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> Sorry, but nearly any skilled job could end up in the "bad job" sector, if your benchmark is "cushy IT job". Even Doctors. They may get paid handsomely, but considering the many years they have to spend grinding away studying and taking exams, and the overtime they have to do (in the public sector) plus the on calls and dealing with many sick people, that aint no cushy job. That is their point. McDonald’s is a bad job because of the bad quality of life at work and low pay. Bad quality of life at work offset by pay, such as with doctors, is not a bad job.

sleepy_keita 5y ago

Maybe in your city? In Japan train drivers are basically forced to act like robots. There's actually an ongoing lawsuit over 56 yen (about $0.50 USD) because a train was 1 minute late.. not arriving at a station, but just entering the yard. https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/05280713556b763ef4f8cf28faeb9bc82090d633 https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/05280713556b763ef4f8cf28fa...