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> the same thing as any other currency: popularity and consumer confidence Real money is backed by your obligation to pay taxes in that currency.. not populari

> the same thing as any other currency: popularity and consumer confidence Real money is backed by your obligation to pay taxes in that currency.. not popularity or confidence.

DennisP 5y ago
People manage to come up with mediums of exchange even in the absence of taxing governments.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  When has there been a government that doesn't tax?
  - DennisP 5y ago
    My claim is that currencies don't depend on taxation in that currency. Many areas today have local currencies, which are not accepted by any government for taxes. Prisoners use things like cigarettes as currency. On the island of Yap they used giant stones, which nobody attempted to tax. According to David Graeber, money actually arose as an abstraction of debts. You can have debts between people without having taxes.
    - mohanmcgeek 5y ago
      > Prisoners use things like cigarettes as currency This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. Prisoners have an approximate idea of how much a cigarate is worth in dollar terms and how much they're willing to pay for..a phone call (?) > David Graeber, money actually arose as an abstraction of debts Yes. I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions from that chapter of the book. The money that we have today is an IOU from the reserve bank which is backed by an iou by the government. And since taxes are essentially a form of debt on the citizen's part, you pay taxes and all this should cancel out. Needless to say, none of these ponzi coins are of this design
      - DennisP 5y ago
        > This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. That seems like a tautology. > The money that we have today Well yes, I didn't claim cryptocurrency works like the money we have today.
        beckingz 5y ago
        Bootstrapping!
- imtringued 5y ago
  True, all you need is to track debts. Gold is just a token that represents an implicit balance sheet. It's effectively security technology. The problem is that an implicit balance sheet is highly speculative. People owe each other products and services. The gold standard is still credit money. However, no given individual has to accept the currency and has to owe anything to anyone. Because there aren't any explicit agreements or written contracts between parties anyone can back out at any instant. That is why gold is so highly speculative. Nobody really knows how much stuff you can get out of it if you were to trade it for products and services.

> the same thing as any other currency: popularity and consumer confidence Real money is backed by your obligation to pay taxes in that currency.. not popularity or confidence.

DennisP 5y ago

People manage to come up with mediums of exchange even in the absence of taxing governments.

JohnFen 5y ago
When has there been a government that doesn't tax?
- DennisP 5y ago
  My claim is that currencies don't depend on taxation in that currency. Many areas today have local currencies, which are not accepted by any government for taxes. Prisoners use things like cigarettes as currency. On the island of Yap they used giant stones, which nobody attempted to tax. According to David Graeber, money actually arose as an abstraction of debts. You can have debts between people without having taxes.
  - mohanmcgeek 5y ago
    > Prisoners use things like cigarettes as currency This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. Prisoners have an approximate idea of how much a cigarate is worth in dollar terms and how much they're willing to pay for..a phone call (?) > David Graeber, money actually arose as an abstraction of debts Yes. I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions from that chapter of the book. The money that we have today is an IOU from the reserve bank which is backed by an iou by the government. And since taxes are essentially a form of debt on the citizen's part, you pay taxes and all this should cancel out. Needless to say, none of these ponzi coins are of this design
    - DennisP 5y ago
      > This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. That seems like a tautology. > The money that we have today Well yes, I didn't claim cryptocurrency works like the money we have today.
      - beckingz 5y ago
        Bootstrapping!
imtringued 5y ago
True, all you need is to track debts. Gold is just a token that represents an implicit balance sheet. It's effectively security technology. The problem is that an implicit balance sheet is highly speculative. People owe each other products and services. The gold standard is still credit money. However, no given individual has to accept the currency and has to owe anything to anyone. Because there aren't any explicit agreements or written contracts between parties anyone can back out at any instant. That is why gold is so highly speculative. Nobody really knows how much stuff you can get out of it if you were to trade it for products and services.