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Here’s what I’ve learned (thanks Zuby) Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right. At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian ten

Here’s what I’ve learned (thanks Zuby) Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right. At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian tendencies, which will emerge under the right conditions. Fear of death is only rivalled by the fear of social disapproval. The latter could be stronger. Propaganda is just as effective in the modern day as it was 100 years ago. Access to limitless information has not made the average person any wiser. Source: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1412012561164390403.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1412012561164390403.html

jmnicolas 5y ago
What I learned is that I was giving way too much credits to humans than what they deserved. People I thought were rational just turned complete morons. My disappointment is high, I'm getting lonelier and lonelier.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > People I thought were rational just turned complete morons. Same. Some of the smartest, most rational people I know completely lost their damn minds. Tribalism is more important than just about anything, it seems.
- swiley 5y ago
  It looks like most of the stupidity may be in the illegal immigrants.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also, could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments generally? You've been doing it a lot, and we're trying for something a bit different than internet default here.
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago
  Read my profile and the link in there, see if it interests you.
- emerged 5y ago
  There has definitely been a great deal of disillusionment. I’m constantly trying to digest it without giving in to cynicism.
maxerickson 5y ago
So some of the resistance to the vaccines is reactionary, following anger from the so-called lockdowns? That makes an unfortunate amount of sense.
rhn_mk1 5y ago
This is full of hot takes, but it's missing sources and examples, so can't be taken as valid observations.
slg 5y ago
These are phrased well because for most of them people are going to think "yeah, the other side is crazy". Only a few of that full thread reveal Zuby's bias.
- glogla 5y ago
  Really? Interesting perspective. For me, it is very obvious which side this person is on (both the twitterer and HN poster) based on keyword like "authoritarian" and "propaganda" and "fear of death", not to mention "people have science as religion".
  - slg 5y ago
    Perspective from the right: - Authoritarianism - The left is authoritarian because they are for mandates and lockdowns. - Propaganda - The mainstream media and the CDC have continually overexaggerated the threat of COVID. - Fear of death - People on the left only cares about virtual signaling and not the threat to their personal safety that comes with giving up freedom. Perspective from the left: - Authoritarianism - The Trump admin lied to us about the threat of COVID, tried to cover up their mismanagement of the pandemic, restricted people's individual freedom to prioritize their health by forcing people back to work. Also there is the whole trying to invalidate fair elections thing. - Propaganda - Fox News and Republicans have continually downplayed the threat of COVID and the effectiveness of the vaccine. - Fear of death - The people on the right would rather follow the leaders of their party than protect their own safety. The one about science being religion is one of the few that reveals Zuby's bias.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      > the effectiveness of the vaccine. If these vaccines work so well, why are all the blue states requiring fully vaccinated individuals to wear masks? You can even get a booster and still be required to wear a mask. If they are so effective, why does any vaccinated individual give a single crap about the vaccination status of anybody else? Who are these masks trying to protect? If anything the only people downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccine are the “experts” and all these worthless politicians. Note: I’m fully vaccinated and believe these vaccines are perhaps some of the best humans have created. There is zero reason to continue dragging this crap on beyond last January. Vaccines were the promised end of all these restrictions. That people seem perfectly okay shifting the goalposts well beyond that is scary as hell.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
This is the same frustrating nonsense I see over and over. And it's frustrating specifically because many of his points I can agree with (somewhat), but shit like this always devolves into "the evil government and media is trying to keep you down". I mean look at all the talk of "authoritarianism" and "people enjoy being subjugated". I can only assume he's talking about things like mask and vaccine mandates. Which is so fucking bizarre to me because we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades, vaccine mandates ever since I was born, and one of his complaints is that "the government and media can politicize anything"?? None of this shit used to be politicized to anywhere near the degree it is today - now even things that have the most mild downsides, yet with clear benefits to others, are "the government is out to own you". All with the same bullshit tone of "ahh, look at those ignorant sheeple"...
- juanani 5y ago
  [dead]
- hammock 5y ago
  >we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades Libertarians and other freedom lovers have been fighting, arguing against and civilly disobeying those laws, vehemently, for as long as they have been in existence. Perhaps it didn't get as much play in the media.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I'm actually fine with those "freedom lovers" not having to wear seatbelts or helmets, as long as EMS and doctors are free to leave them on the road.
    - virtuallynathan 5y ago
      There are plenty of risky activities one can legally partake in… are we just going to let those people die when they are injured?
ludocode 5y ago
[flagged]
- glogla 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - 015a 5y ago
    So, who someone is is more important than what they're saying? Isn't that a logical fallacy?
    - glogla 5y ago
      Depends. In perfectly logical debate, you'd be right. But I think real world is more complex. What if "who someone is" a "someone who is easily manipulated and used by bad actors to amplify dangerous misinformation"? Or, someone being American person of color is pretty important when they talk about racism in US. As opposed to someone, who is not only not a person of color but has been to US like once for a week (like me). Or perhaps more relevantly, what if "who someone is" is "a certified medical doctor" as opposed to "someone with no experience in medical field who gets their information from corporate social network who makes most money when people are angry because anger is very good for engagement"?
      - 015a 5y ago
        Or, similarly: What if someone who isn't even an American amplifies their opinions on what direction America should take its public health policy in? But I am strongly in the camp that it doesn't matter. I welcome your opinion, and want to read it. No discussions are perfectly logical; that's not a relevant component in the application of critical thinking to look past who is speaking, and at what they are speaking about. A gag is a poor replacement for Reason, and more-over only serves to strengthen the bubbles we build for ourselves in both our offline and online lives. I would agree that credentialism is valuable; but that is very, very different from "once said something on the internet that I disagreed with."

jmnicolas 5y ago

What I learned is that I was giving way too much credits to humans than what they deserved. People I thought were rational just turned complete morons. My disappointment is high, I'm getting lonelier and lonelier.

spookthesunset 5y ago
> People I thought were rational just turned complete morons. Same. Some of the smartest, most rational people I know completely lost their damn minds. Tribalism is more important than just about anything, it seems.
swiley 5y ago
It looks like most of the stupidity may be in the illegal immigrants.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also, could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments generally? You've been doing it a lot, and we're trying for something a bit different than internet default here.
dennis_jeeves 5y ago
Read my profile and the link in there, see if it interests you.
emerged 5y ago
There has definitely been a great deal of disillusionment. I’m constantly trying to digest it without giving in to cynicism.

maxerickson 5y ago

So some of the resistance to the vaccines is reactionary, following anger from the so-called lockdowns? That makes an unfortunate amount of sense.

rhn_mk1 5y ago

This is full of hot takes, but it's missing sources and examples, so can't be taken as valid observations.

slg 5y ago

These are phrased well because for most of them people are going to think "yeah, the other side is crazy". Only a few of that full thread reveal Zuby's bias.

glogla 5y ago
Really? Interesting perspective. For me, it is very obvious which side this person is on (both the twitterer and HN poster) based on keyword like "authoritarian" and "propaganda" and "fear of death", not to mention "people have science as religion".
- slg 5y ago
  Perspective from the right: - Authoritarianism - The left is authoritarian because they are for mandates and lockdowns. - Propaganda - The mainstream media and the CDC have continually overexaggerated the threat of COVID. - Fear of death - People on the left only cares about virtual signaling and not the threat to their personal safety that comes with giving up freedom. Perspective from the left: - Authoritarianism - The Trump admin lied to us about the threat of COVID, tried to cover up their mismanagement of the pandemic, restricted people's individual freedom to prioritize their health by forcing people back to work. Also there is the whole trying to invalidate fair elections thing. - Propaganda - Fox News and Republicans have continually downplayed the threat of COVID and the effectiveness of the vaccine. - Fear of death - The people on the right would rather follow the leaders of their party than protect their own safety. The one about science being religion is one of the few that reveals Zuby's bias.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    > the effectiveness of the vaccine. If these vaccines work so well, why are all the blue states requiring fully vaccinated individuals to wear masks? You can even get a booster and still be required to wear a mask. If they are so effective, why does any vaccinated individual give a single crap about the vaccination status of anybody else? Who are these masks trying to protect? If anything the only people downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccine are the “experts” and all these worthless politicians. Note: I’m fully vaccinated and believe these vaccines are perhaps some of the best humans have created. There is zero reason to continue dragging this crap on beyond last January. Vaccines were the promised end of all these restrictions. That people seem perfectly okay shifting the goalposts well beyond that is scary as hell.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

This is the same frustrating nonsense I see over and over. And it's frustrating specifically because many of his points I can agree with (somewhat), but shit like this always devolves into "the evil government and media is trying to keep you down". I mean look at all the talk of "authoritarianism" and "people enjoy being subjugated". I can only assume he's talking about things like mask and vaccine mandates. Which is so fucking bizarre to me because we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades, vaccine mandates ever since I was born, and one of his complaints is that "the government and media can politicize anything"?? None of this shit used to be politicized to anywhere near the degree it is today - now even things that have the most mild downsides, yet with clear benefits to others, are "the government is out to own you". All with the same bullshit tone of "ahh, look at those ignorant sheeple"...

juanani 5y ago
[dead]
hammock 5y ago
>we've had things like seatbelt and helmet laws for decades Libertarians and other freedom lovers have been fighting, arguing against and civilly disobeying those laws, vehemently, for as long as they have been in existence. Perhaps it didn't get as much play in the media.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I'm actually fine with those "freedom lovers" not having to wear seatbelts or helmets, as long as EMS and doctors are free to leave them on the road.
  - virtuallynathan 5y ago
    There are plenty of risky activities one can legally partake in… are we just going to let those people die when they are injured?

ludocode 5y ago

[flagged]

glogla 5y ago
[flagged]
- 015a 5y ago
  So, who someone is is more important than what they're saying? Isn't that a logical fallacy?
  - glogla 5y ago
    Depends. In perfectly logical debate, you'd be right. But I think real world is more complex. What if "who someone is" a "someone who is easily manipulated and used by bad actors to amplify dangerous misinformation"? Or, someone being American person of color is pretty important when they talk about racism in US. As opposed to someone, who is not only not a person of color but has been to US like once for a week (like me). Or perhaps more relevantly, what if "who someone is" is "a certified medical doctor" as opposed to "someone with no experience in medical field who gets their information from corporate social network who makes most money when people are angry because anger is very good for engagement"?
    - 015a 5y ago
      Or, similarly: What if someone who isn't even an American amplifies their opinions on what direction America should take its public health policy in? But I am strongly in the camp that it doesn't matter. I welcome your opinion, and want to read it. No discussions are perfectly logical; that's not a relevant component in the application of critical thinking to look past who is speaking, and at what they are speaking about. A gag is a poor replacement for Reason, and more-over only serves to strengthen the bubbles we build for ourselves in both our offline and online lives. I would agree that credentialism is valuable; but that is very, very different from "once said something on the internet that I disagreed with."