3 ms·

The things people build to avoid learning vi...

Meekro 5y ago
I love my laziness, and won't give it up. =) I've already switched to this. Installing and configuring it was a lot easier than learning vi would have been.
emptyparadise 5y ago
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster emacs."
- legends2k 5y ago
  Nah... they use Emacs server now :P
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  Or a typewriter with grep support.
kortex 5y ago
I wish people would stop treating vi like it's God's gift to every programmer on earth. I forced myself to use it for two weeks just to see what the fuss is all about and try to push through any bias. So first off I use Dvorak so I have to switch tons of the bindings so I can use reference layouts. My moonlander keyboard already gives me directional movement on home keys. I don't have a ton of things to automate that I cant do in Alfred and my keyboard has over 1000 possible slots for keys and macros, more than I could ever use. Unlike Alfred workflows, the macros are trapped in vim. I have to add a ton of plugins to get anything approaching the experience of Pycharm and now it's just as slow, the auto completion is worse, and it looks like ass. But hey at least I can use it over an ssh connection (gotta transport all of my config first!), as if sshfs is not a thing, not that my work load is all cloud containers so I rarely ssh at all anyways. Micro fills a niche for me where I don't want to leave the terminal and just need to edit a few lines.
- pantulis 5y ago
  I wish people would stop treating Dvorak like it's God's gift to every typist on earth. (Sorry, just joking, could not resist :P)
- rgoulter 5y ago
  There's more to vim keybindings and modal editing than "nav keys on home row". e.g. if the editor has the line `println("Hello |World")` where the cursor is at |, you can change the whole text inside the "" by typing `ci"`, or change the word by typing `cw`. -- QMK is great, but it can't do that. I use Vim (and Emacs) as a Dvorak user. I don't change the layouts; I just stick with mnemonics. e.g. in vim, g is "go..", c is "change..", d is "delete..". With Dvorak, the `jk` are adjacent, so that works out. `h` is still to the left of `l`... but, vim's keybindings are excellent at navigating in a line, so many `h`/`l` should be avoided anyway. I think "hard to get vim to be as good a development environment as an IDE" is more/less a fair point. Anyway, it's great that micro can fill a niche for you. I wish everyone could appreciate modal editing and symmetrical keyboards.
speed_spread 5y ago
Let's make one thing clear. I am not avoiding learning vi, I _refuse_ learning vi. There is no reason in 2021 for to have such terrible discoverability. If it's such a great tool, why did no one see fit making it progressively learnable from within the tool itself? I see people talking about using vim like some other talk about going to the gym. Great abs, fast editing, but... do you even code, bro? Unless I'm working on trivial stuff, my crafting speed is rarely limited by my editing capabilities. When it is, it's usually because the code is repetitive and it's time to change it. High-level language tooling like refactoring and static analysis are way, way more important for medium+ size projects productivity.These are much better served by an actual IDE than some one-off integration with an obtuse editor deriving macho pride from it's 1970's TTY-limited semantics.
- Seb-C 5y ago
  > There is no reason in 2021 for to have such terrible discoverability. If it's such a great tool, why did no one see fit making it progressively learnable from within the tool itself? vim comes with a tutorial that teaches all the basics from inside vim... It's installed pretty much everywhere, you just have to run vimtutor. > I see people talking about using vim like some other talk about going to the gym. Great abs, fast editing, but... do you even code, bro? Why the condescending tone? Yes I do code, everyday and full time, and vim absolutely increased my focus and productivity. There is way too much to talk about in a single post, but stuff like macros, showing multiple files at once, (tabs is not the natural way of doing things in vim), viewing multiple parts of the same file at once the native integration with the terminal (just ctrl-x to go back to the terminal and fg back to vim, or execute any command with :! ) are great for productivity when you have to deal with multiple tools. > High-level language tooling like refactoring and static analysis are way, way more important for medium+ size projects productivity. I agree, and that's why I use vim. I can do all of that more efficiently in vim because the refactoring tools are way more powerful, and everything is macro-able. > These are much better served by an actual IDE than some one-off integration with an obtuse editor deriving macho pride from it's 1970's TTY-limited semantics. Condescending and even insulting tone again... great. FYI, vim has all the features of any modern IDE. The opposite is not true however.

I love my laziness, and won't give it up. =) I've already switched to this. Installing and configuring it was a lot easier than learning vi would have been.

emptyparadise 5y ago

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster emacs."

legends2k 5y ago
Nah... they use Emacs server now :P
quickthrower2 5y ago
Or a typewriter with grep support.

kortex 5y ago

I wish people would stop treating vi like it's God's gift to every programmer on earth. I forced myself to use it for two weeks just to see what the fuss is all about and try to push through any bias. So first off I use Dvorak so I have to switch tons of the bindings so I can use reference layouts. My moonlander keyboard already gives me directional movement on home keys. I don't have a ton of things to automate that I cant do in Alfred and my keyboard has over 1000 possible slots for keys and macros, more than I could ever use. Unlike Alfred workflows, the macros are trapped in vim. I have to add a ton of plugins to get anything approaching the experience of Pycharm and now it's just as slow, the auto completion is worse, and it looks like ass. But hey at least I can use it over an ssh connection (gotta transport all of my config first!), as if sshfs is not a thing, not that my work load is all cloud containers so I rarely ssh at all anyways. Micro fills a niche for me where I don't want to leave the terminal and just need to edit a few lines.

pantulis 5y ago
I wish people would stop treating Dvorak like it's God's gift to every typist on earth. (Sorry, just joking, could not resist :P)
rgoulter 5y ago
There's more to vim keybindings and modal editing than "nav keys on home row". e.g. if the editor has the line `println("Hello |World")` where the cursor is at |, you can change the whole text inside the "" by typing `ci"`, or change the word by typing `cw`. -- QMK is great, but it can't do that. I use Vim (and Emacs) as a Dvorak user. I don't change the layouts; I just stick with mnemonics. e.g. in vim, g is "go..", c is "change..", d is "delete..". With Dvorak, the `jk` are adjacent, so that works out. `h` is still to the left of `l`... but, vim's keybindings are excellent at navigating in a line, so many `h`/`l` should be avoided anyway. I think "hard to get vim to be as good a development environment as an IDE" is more/less a fair point. Anyway, it's great that micro can fill a niche for you. I wish everyone could appreciate modal editing and symmetrical keyboards.

speed_spread 5y ago

Let's make one thing clear. I am not avoiding learning vi, I _refuse_ learning vi. There is no reason in 2021 for to have such terrible discoverability. If it's such a great tool, why did no one see fit making it progressively learnable from within the tool itself? I see people talking about using vim like some other talk about going to the gym. Great abs, fast editing, but... do you even code, bro? Unless I'm working on trivial stuff, my crafting speed is rarely limited by my editing capabilities. When it is, it's usually because the code is repetitive and it's time to change it. High-level language tooling like refactoring and static analysis are way, way more important for medium+ size projects productivity.These are much better served by an actual IDE than some one-off integration with an obtuse editor deriving macho pride from it's 1970's TTY-limited semantics.

Seb-C 5y ago
> There is no reason in 2021 for to have such terrible discoverability. If it's such a great tool, why did no one see fit making it progressively learnable from within the tool itself? vim comes with a tutorial that teaches all the basics from inside vim... It's installed pretty much everywhere, you just have to run vimtutor. > I see people talking about using vim like some other talk about going to the gym. Great abs, fast editing, but... do you even code, bro? Why the condescending tone? Yes I do code, everyday and full time, and vim absolutely increased my focus and productivity. There is way too much to talk about in a single post, but stuff like macros, showing multiple files at once, (tabs is not the natural way of doing things in vim), viewing multiple parts of the same file at once the native integration with the terminal (just ctrl-x to go back to the terminal and fg back to vim, or execute any command with :! ) are great for productivity when you have to deal with multiple tools. > High-level language tooling like refactoring and static analysis are way, way more important for medium+ size projects productivity. I agree, and that's why I use vim. I can do all of that more efficiently in vim because the refactoring tools are way more powerful, and everything is macro-able. > These are much better served by an actual IDE than some one-off integration with an obtuse editor deriving macho pride from it's 1970's TTY-limited semantics. Condescending and even insulting tone again... great. FYI, vim has all the features of any modern IDE. The opposite is not true however.