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I suppose some people would lump me in with "anti-vaxxer" because I don't want to get the Covid vaccine. I'm not anti-vax, btw. I have a medical condition that

I suppose some people would lump me in with "anti-vaxxer" because I don't want to get the Covid vaccine. I'm not anti-vax, btw. I have a medical condition that requires me to receive regular vaccination against several diseases, and I'm strict about doing that on time. I've made a calculated decision in the case of this specific vaccine based on that fact that I've now had Covid twice (first time was a bit nasty, second time was very mild) and have acquired fairly robust natural immunity. According to almost all of the research I've read, natural immunity is at least as effective as the vaccine, which makes sense to me. Our bodies (if healthy) tend to be pretty good at this stuff. The vaccine carries risk, all medical treatments do. When I calculate my baseline risk - very healthy, fit, no cormobidities, etc..., couple it with my acquired natural immunity, my chances of a negative outcome from Covid asymptotically approach zero. This appears to me to be less risk than the vaccine introduces. I say all this to describe my mindset, I think a lot of people share it. Lumping everyone that choses based on a risk calculation to not receive the vaccine as "anti-vaxxer" is a common thing that people do (though I believe it is wrong). All that being said, my primary point is that if I got Covid again, I'd absolutely be receptive to a therapeutic like this. My decision against getting the vaccine was entirely risk based. At the point where I've contracted the illness again, however unlikely, the risk has been realized and I would 100% be receptive to taking this therapeutic if my doctor recommended it.

oblio 5y ago
The thing is, you're not representative of unvaccinated folks. You're an extreme outlier. Most of them haven't done this research. In my opinion, if you're nice and wear a mask in crowded conditions, don't go around hanging especially indoors in big groups, your position is kind of ok. Though I'd still look at the numbers to check if vaccines reduce infection rates and rate of spread. Because if that's true, it might be worth getting vaccinated to protect others a bit more.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Your priors probably need updating as natural immunity as the OP describes appears to be much more robust, esp compared to the J&J after a year. Also vaccinated people spread delta, so everyone is getting it on some time scale.
  - oblio 5y ago
    You > Your priors probably need updating as natural immunity as the OP describes appears to be much more robust, esp compared to the J&J after a year. Me > Though I'd still look at the numbers to check if vaccines reduce infection rates and rate of spread. Thankfully I said that already. > Also vaccinated people spread delta, so everyone is getting it on some time scale. That's not guaranteed, though. Just like not everyone on the planet will ever get all the strands of flu or cold or whatever. Through natural immunity + vaccinations at some point the disease can just die down and through a simple rotation you could avoid it (i.e. everyone else gets it at a time when you're not around so you're spared). Plus the time scale is important. In November 2019 we didn't have any vaccines, now we have 4 that are approved on a wide scale (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ) plus a bunch of others with widespread usage but a less stellar reputation (Sputnik, the Chinese ones) plus another bunch coming soon <<and>> this very topic is about a drug for curing it. And another slightly less effective drug has also been approved recently, from Merck. That's... 24 months after the initial outbreak. Who knows what 24 more months will bring?
  - orra 5y ago
    > Also vaccinated people spread delta Vaccinated people? Much less so than the unvaccinated. Double vaccinated people are 60-75% less likely to catch even asymptomatic COVID. If infected, they are 50% less likely to transmit it onwards to others. These are Delta figures.
    - lborsato 5y ago
      “Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.” https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036 (Article contains link to the Lancet study)
      - geraneum 5y ago
        That happens in breakthrough infections, and the goal of the vaccine is to reduce the number of breakthroughs, which it does successfully. From the Lancet study linked in the article: > The SAR in household contacts exposed to the delta variant was 25% (95% CI 18–33) for fully vaccinated individuals compared with 38% (24–53) in unvaccinated individuals.
geraneum 5y ago
I hear you and your argument sounds rational. I wonder what do you think about receiving it for the sake of potentially vulnerable people around you. Just to reduce the likelihood of spreading it to someone who, unlike you, might be in real danger. I personally didn’t mind the side effects, but mainly got it because I thought: What if I get Covid and give it to someone and something happens to them? And then I thought that it still worths the risk. Of course no one should blame you if you want to care for yourself but I’m interested to know your feelings on this.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  It’s rational argument especially now that we know vaccinated people spread this endemic virus. Your mindset should be: everyone is going to get this, probably multiple times in your life, vaccines reduce the symptoms, but not as effectively as having survived covid.
- nradov 5y ago
  I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated to protect themselves against severe symptoms, but that does little to protect vulnerable people. Vaccinated people also transmit the virus. Since the virus is endemic and can't be eradicated, everyone will be exposed multiple times throughout their lives.
  - geraneum 5y ago
    But apparently vaccinated people only transmit the virus if it’s a breakthrough case. If that’s the case then the transmission is reduced in more vaccinated populations compared to unvaccinated.
    - nradov 5y ago
      Please stop repeating misinformation. Vaccination has only a temporary and limited effect on reducing transmission. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
orra 5y ago
> My decision against getting the vaccine was entirely risk based. You say that, but you ended up catching COVID twice. Was the second time post the availability of vaccines?

oblio 5y ago

The thing is, you're not representative of unvaccinated folks. You're an extreme outlier. Most of them haven't done this research. In my opinion, if you're nice and wear a mask in crowded conditions, don't go around hanging especially indoors in big groups, your position is kind of ok. Though I'd still look at the numbers to check if vaccines reduce infection rates and rate of spread. Because if that's true, it might be worth getting vaccinated to protect others a bit more.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Your priors probably need updating as natural immunity as the OP describes appears to be much more robust, esp compared to the J&J after a year. Also vaccinated people spread delta, so everyone is getting it on some time scale.
- oblio 5y ago
  You > Your priors probably need updating as natural immunity as the OP describes appears to be much more robust, esp compared to the J&J after a year. Me > Though I'd still look at the numbers to check if vaccines reduce infection rates and rate of spread. Thankfully I said that already. > Also vaccinated people spread delta, so everyone is getting it on some time scale. That's not guaranteed, though. Just like not everyone on the planet will ever get all the strands of flu or cold or whatever. Through natural immunity + vaccinations at some point the disease can just die down and through a simple rotation you could avoid it (i.e. everyone else gets it at a time when you're not around so you're spared). Plus the time scale is important. In November 2019 we didn't have any vaccines, now we have 4 that are approved on a wide scale (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ) plus a bunch of others with widespread usage but a less stellar reputation (Sputnik, the Chinese ones) plus another bunch coming soon <<and>> this very topic is about a drug for curing it. And another slightly less effective drug has also been approved recently, from Merck. That's... 24 months after the initial outbreak. Who knows what 24 more months will bring?
- orra 5y ago
  > Also vaccinated people spread delta Vaccinated people? Much less so than the unvaccinated. Double vaccinated people are 60-75% less likely to catch even asymptomatic COVID. If infected, they are 50% less likely to transmit it onwards to others. These are Delta figures.
  - lborsato 5y ago
    “Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.” https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036 (Article contains link to the Lancet study)
    - geraneum 5y ago
      That happens in breakthrough infections, and the goal of the vaccine is to reduce the number of breakthroughs, which it does successfully. From the Lancet study linked in the article: > The SAR in household contacts exposed to the delta variant was 25% (95% CI 18–33) for fully vaccinated individuals compared with 38% (24–53) in unvaccinated individuals.

geraneum 5y ago

I hear you and your argument sounds rational. I wonder what do you think about receiving it for the sake of potentially vulnerable people around you. Just to reduce the likelihood of spreading it to someone who, unlike you, might be in real danger. I personally didn’t mind the side effects, but mainly got it because I thought: What if I get Covid and give it to someone and something happens to them? And then I thought that it still worths the risk. Of course no one should blame you if you want to care for yourself but I’m interested to know your feelings on this.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
It’s rational argument especially now that we know vaccinated people spread this endemic virus. Your mindset should be: everyone is going to get this, probably multiple times in your life, vaccines reduce the symptoms, but not as effectively as having survived covid.
nradov 5y ago
I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated to protect themselves against severe symptoms, but that does little to protect vulnerable people. Vaccinated people also transmit the virus. Since the virus is endemic and can't be eradicated, everyone will be exposed multiple times throughout their lives.
- geraneum 5y ago
  But apparently vaccinated people only transmit the virus if it’s a breakthrough case. If that’s the case then the transmission is reduced in more vaccinated populations compared to unvaccinated.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Please stop repeating misinformation. Vaccination has only a temporary and limited effect on reducing transmission. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

orra 5y ago

> My decision against getting the vaccine was entirely risk based. You say that, but you ended up catching COVID twice. Was the second time post the availability of vaccines?