3 ms·

Tesla pulls its new Full Self-Driving beta due to software 'issues'

22 points by sizzle 5y ago

nemothekid 5y ago
This article is kind of clickbait, on top of being almost 2 weeks old. The beta software mentioned here was only released to a subset of people who had a 100/100 safety score and opted-in to the program. Regular folk don't have it yet. I'm not sure why its newsworthy that a private beta was rolled back. For the rest of us FSD is still just vaporware.
- cma 5y ago
  I believe the left turn issue is still happening after the newest update: https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 A 100/100 safety score isn't enough for the reflexes you need for this thing, at any second it can slam into a head-on with someone going the opposite way. It hasn't happened yet, but they shouldn't have released it IMO.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    FSD has been released to private beta testers for well over 2 years now. The 100/100 safety score is just the newest criteria for getting in. >at any second it can slam into a head-on with someone going the opposite way That would actually be newsworthy.
aaronbrethorst 5y ago
"Please note, this is to be expected with beta software. It is impossible to test all hardware configs in all conditions with internal QA (quality assurance), hence public beta," he said. Move fast and run over pedestrians?
- i_like_apis 5y ago
  The error was a false warning of a collision danger ... so it was in fact being safer than it should have been.
  - georgyo 5y ago
    Breaking hard inappropriately is pretty dangerous as well. It's a good way to get hit.
    - belltaco 5y ago
      Only if someone is violating the law by driving too closely too fast to brake in time though.
      - nathanaldensr 5y ago
        A typical technocratic response. The fact is--and it will always be a fact--people tailgate and drive too close. No amount of "ackshually, they shouldn't" makes a difference. Why do cars have rear bumpers?
        belltaco 5y ago
        Looks like a typical layman response. Having car bumpers make people drive closer. http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/papers/pdf/341.pdf http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/papers/pdf/3... http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,00.html http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,0... https://aaafoundation.org/understanding-the-impact-of-technology-do-advanced-driver-assistance-and-semi-automated-vehicle-systems-lead-to-improper-driving-behavior/ https://aaafoundation.org/understanding-the-impact-of-techno...
- gpderetta 5y ago
  Move fast and break legs.
wayeq 5y ago
i would reaaaally hope they ARE testing with all hardware configs given that they own the hardware layer.
- klyrs 5y ago
  By "impossible," I guess that they mean that they don't keep one of each hardware configuration that they've manufactured, because that would cut into their profit margin. If self-driving actually worked, they'd have amazingly cool footage of the entire sample fleet of self-driving cars queueing up for a test course, administering a self-test, and re-parking themselves.
gwern 5y ago
This is from 12 days ago.
- maxcan 5y ago
  Exactly. Also, most of the beta testers said that they were very satisfied with the speed of Tesla’s response. This is the system working how its supposed to.
roywiggins 5y ago
pedestrians would probably like to opt out of this private beta
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  To opt out just wear a coat with "_nofsd" printed on it in large font.
- gpderetta 5y ago
  Don't worry, they'll A/B test it and release the one with the least body count.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Wow... almost like they forgot that it's a car, nearly 2 tons of metal and glass traveling 60+mph, which can easily kill people. They have their head in the clouds so much they forgot what this software really means when deployed. This isn't "oh, ha, looks like the company lost a few hours of productivity today when the email went down!" In fact, to be honest, having 2+ tons of metal and glass going so fast under human control wasn't a great idea to begin with.
AlexandrB 5y ago
> "Regression in some left turns at traffic lights found by internal QA in 10.3. Fix in work, probably releasing tomorrow," he tweeted on Saturday. I don't think I'd want to take a patch for my car that was released on a Sunday. Seems to me that those engineers should be extremely well-rested while developing software for a 1-ton+ vehicle.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Are Tesla employees allowed to be well-rested?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
cma 5y ago
Here's one of the videos of the left turns at lights "regression" possibly: https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 But this was on 10.3.1, after the article and after things were reinstated.
- mnd999 5y ago
  That’s pretty dangerous.
amelius 5y ago
This is why: Software updates should not be allowed to be performed by car manufacturers. Instead, software updates should be submitted to an organization like NHTSA, which then keeps the software for 6 months in escrow, until it is fully tested. The software can then be uploaded into the car by authorized parties. If a bug is found in a car that is potentially dangerous, then cars have to be grounded, or self-driving disabled. To be clear, there should be no such thing as "quick fixes".
- lastofthemojito 5y ago
  As a software engineer this is the sort of thing that always rubbed me the wrong way with some of Elon and Tesla's boasting about Autopilot and FSD. "Autopilot has driven 3 billion miles so we're always learning and getting safer", they say. Ok, sure, that's probably the general trend. But that's counting miles driven with previous hardware and software suites that probably aren't even relevant anymore. And we know they don't have perfect regression testing - folks have pointed out issues where a car had been well-behaved on a familiar road or at a familiar intersection until an update introduced bad behavior. I'm sure the engineers at Tesla are working very hard on this problem and trying their best to prevent dangerous regressions, but errors happen. I don't care how many miles a 2015 Model S with the older Autopilot suite drove safely if my 2024 Model 2 downloads an update and proceeds to steer me into a wall. I don't know the best way to handle this, but I suspect it is something along the lines of your update through NHTSA idea.
deeblering4 5y ago
I'll never understand why people want these cars. Reckless 0-100 launch capability, buggy automation that contributes to accidents, constant over the air updates to "fix" them, and just enough range to drive back and forth to work. I want zero emissions cars to be come commonplace but I'm quite tired of them being these exotic style luxury cars with ipads glued into the center console. I think Toyota is on a much better path with their "Prime" plug-in hybrid models.

22 points by sizzle 5y ago

This article is kind of clickbait, on top of being almost 2 weeks old. The beta software mentioned here was only released to a subset of people who had a 100/100 safety score and opted-in to the program. Regular folk don't have it yet. I'm not sure why its newsworthy that a private beta was rolled back. For the rest of us FSD is still just vaporware.

cma 5y ago
I believe the left turn issue is still happening after the newest update: https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 A 100/100 safety score isn't enough for the reflexes you need for this thing, at any second it can slam into a head-on with someone going the opposite way. It hasn't happened yet, but they shouldn't have released it IMO.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  FSD has been released to private beta testers for well over 2 years now. The 100/100 safety score is just the newest criteria for getting in. >at any second it can slam into a head-on with someone going the opposite way That would actually be newsworthy.

aaronbrethorst 5y ago

"Please note, this is to be expected with beta software. It is impossible to test all hardware configs in all conditions with internal QA (quality assurance), hence public beta," he said. Move fast and run over pedestrians?

i_like_apis 5y ago
The error was a false warning of a collision danger ... so it was in fact being safer than it should have been.
- georgyo 5y ago
  Breaking hard inappropriately is pretty dangerous as well. It's a good way to get hit.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    Only if someone is violating the law by driving too closely too fast to brake in time though.
    - nathanaldensr 5y ago
      A typical technocratic response. The fact is--and it will always be a fact--people tailgate and drive too close. No amount of "ackshually, they shouldn't" makes a difference. Why do cars have rear bumpers?
      - belltaco 5y ago
        Looks like a typical layman response. Having car bumpers make people drive closer. http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/papers/pdf/341.pdf http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/papers/pdf/3... http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,00.html http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,0... https://aaafoundation.org/understanding-the-impact-of-technology-do-advanced-driver-assistance-and-semi-automated-vehicle-systems-lead-to-improper-driving-behavior/ https://aaafoundation.org/understanding-the-impact-of-techno...
gpderetta 5y ago
Move fast and break legs.

wayeq 5y ago

i would reaaaally hope they ARE testing with all hardware configs given that they own the hardware layer.

klyrs 5y ago
By "impossible," I guess that they mean that they don't keep one of each hardware configuration that they've manufactured, because that would cut into their profit margin. If self-driving actually worked, they'd have amazingly cool footage of the entire sample fleet of self-driving cars queueing up for a test course, administering a self-test, and re-parking themselves.

gwern 5y ago

This is from 12 days ago.

maxcan 5y ago
Exactly. Also, most of the beta testers said that they were very satisfied with the speed of Tesla’s response. This is the system working how its supposed to.

roywiggins 5y ago

pedestrians would probably like to opt out of this private beta

AlexandrB 5y ago
To opt out just wear a coat with "_nofsd" printed on it in large font.
gpderetta 5y ago
Don't worry, they'll A/B test it and release the one with the least body count.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Wow... almost like they forgot that it's a car, nearly 2 tons of metal and glass traveling 60+mph, which can easily kill people. They have their head in the clouds so much they forgot what this software really means when deployed. This isn't "oh, ha, looks like the company lost a few hours of productivity today when the email went down!" In fact, to be honest, having 2+ tons of metal and glass going so fast under human control wasn't a great idea to begin with.

AlexandrB 5y ago

> "Regression in some left turns at traffic lights found by internal QA in 10.3. Fix in work, probably releasing tomorrow," he tweeted on Saturday. I don't think I'd want to take a patch for my car that was released on a Sunday. Seems to me that those engineers should be extremely well-rested while developing software for a 1-ton+ vehicle.

tshaddox 5y ago
Are Tesla employees allowed to be well-rested?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

cma 5y ago

Here's one of the videos of the left turns at lights "regression" possibly: https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 https://twitter.com/bagguley/status/1456628357131644928 But this was on 10.3.1, after the article and after things were reinstated.

mnd999 5y ago
That’s pretty dangerous.

amelius 5y ago

This is why: Software updates should not be allowed to be performed by car manufacturers. Instead, software updates should be submitted to an organization like NHTSA, which then keeps the software for 6 months in escrow, until it is fully tested. The software can then be uploaded into the car by authorized parties. If a bug is found in a car that is potentially dangerous, then cars have to be grounded, or self-driving disabled. To be clear, there should be no such thing as "quick fixes".

lastofthemojito 5y ago
As a software engineer this is the sort of thing that always rubbed me the wrong way with some of Elon and Tesla's boasting about Autopilot and FSD. "Autopilot has driven 3 billion miles so we're always learning and getting safer", they say. Ok, sure, that's probably the general trend. But that's counting miles driven with previous hardware and software suites that probably aren't even relevant anymore. And we know they don't have perfect regression testing - folks have pointed out issues where a car had been well-behaved on a familiar road or at a familiar intersection until an update introduced bad behavior. I'm sure the engineers at Tesla are working very hard on this problem and trying their best to prevent dangerous regressions, but errors happen. I don't care how many miles a 2015 Model S with the older Autopilot suite drove safely if my 2024 Model 2 downloads an update and proceeds to steer me into a wall. I don't know the best way to handle this, but I suspect it is something along the lines of your update through NHTSA idea.

deeblering4 5y ago

I'll never understand why people want these cars. Reckless 0-100 launch capability, buggy automation that contributes to accidents, constant over the air updates to "fix" them, and just enough range to drive back and forth to work. I want zero emissions cars to be come commonplace but I'm quite tired of them being these exotic style luxury cars with ipads glued into the center console. I think Toyota is on a much better path with their "Prime" plug-in hybrid models.