6 ms·

I'd say that this will appeal to people who are covid vaccine skeptical. If you're skeptical of the mRNA vaccines, you'd probably be in favor of this treatment

by jdhn 5y ago

I'd say that this will appeal to people who are covid vaccine skeptical. If you're skeptical of the mRNA vaccines, you'd probably be in favor of this treatment than the vaccines.

dboreham 5y ago
Because _absolutely_ _anything_ is less dangerous than mRNA.
- epakai 5y ago
  mRNA has potential to be dangerous. There is nothing inherently dangerous in what our bodies already use as building instructions, nor is there evidence to suggest current mRNA vaccines cause any of these theoretical issues.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Yeah, plus on top of that, anything has the potential to be dangerous. Take, for example, water. Everybody knows about its positive sides, and about most of the negative ones. But 99% of people don't know that water can kill you. I'm not talking about drowning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication If the most benign substance on the surface on the planet can kill you, anything can.
- atleta 5y ago
  I have bad news for you (unless it was irony, which I can't rule out): the SARS-CoV2 virus contains its genome as RNA that is used directly (IIRC) as mRNA. Because it's needed for the protein synthesis to build new virus particles. This is true for every virus, BTW: they either contain RNA that can be used by the cell for protein synthesis (i.e. mRNA) or they do synthesize (or make the cell synthesize) the mRNA based on their genome, one way or another. So no matter what, you'll get the viral mRNA in your body. Either through infection or through the vaccine. The vaccine just contains a small fragment and it does not proliferate. Unlike the virus.
orra 5y ago
I'm not so certain. People who for whatever irrational reason don't want an mRNA vaccine can take a viral vector vaccine. Yet they don't.
- toast0 5y ago
  Maybe if they're hesitant for irrational reasons. But if they're hesitant for rational reasons, mRNA vaccines and modified adenovirus vaccines are both new for mass use. There are some inactivated virus vaccines which would be best for people who want to avoid new vaccine types, but AFAIK they haven't even been tested in the US.
- nijave 5y ago
  Monoclonal antibodies get less pushback https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/health/covid-antibody-regeneron.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/health/covid-antibody-reg... I think there's also some "it won't happen to me" mentality that quickly disappears once it does (which is far too late for a vaccine)
- claytongulick 5y ago
  I suppose some people would lump me in with "anti-vaxxer" because I don't want to get the Covid vaccine. I'm not anti-vax, btw. I have a medical condition that requires me to receive regular vaccination against several diseases, and I'm strict about doing that on time. I've made a calculated decision in the case of this specific vaccine based on that fact that I've now had Covid twice (first time was a bit nasty, second time was very mild) and have acquired fairly robust natural immunity. According to almost all of the research I've read, natural immunity is at least as effective as the vaccine, which makes sense to me. Our bodies (if healthy) tend to be pretty good at this stuff. The vaccine carries risk, all medical treatments do. When I calculate my baseline risk - very healthy, fit, no cormobidities, etc..., couple it with my acquired natural immunity, my chances of a negative outcome from Covid asymptotically approach zero. This appears to me to be less risk than the vaccine introduces. I say all this to describe my mindset, I think a lot of people share it. Lumping everyone that choses based on a risk calculation to not receive the vaccine as "anti-vaxxer" is a common thing that people do (though I believe it is wrong). All that being said, my primary point is that if I got Covid again, I'd absolutely be receptive to a therapeutic like this. My decision against getting the vaccine was entirely risk based. At the point where I've contracted the illness again, however unlikely, the risk has been realized and I would 100% be receptive to taking this therapeutic if my doctor recommended it.
swader999 5y ago
I had one vaccine dose with severe issues. So maybe I'm skeptical, I won't get a second or third dose. Most people in this camp will just use ivermectin. Including myself, it works and is safe.
- tsol 5y ago
  The antiviral mechanism of Ivermectin involves the inhibition of nuclear transport by importin α/β1 in the host. It can and has lead to death when improperly dosed.
  - loudlambda 5y ago
    Anything can lead to death when improperly dosed.
  - swader999 5y ago
    The size of dose you are talking about would be only possible to take if you were contemplating suicide. You left a lot out in regards to the mechanisms of action: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203399/
    - atleta 5y ago
      This article has been retracted 5 months ago. So basically right after publication [1] . [1] https://pubpeer.com/publications/EDF9109EE29DF2340379B562365FE5?utm_source=Firefox&utm_medium=BrowserExtension&utm_campaign=Firefox https://pubpeer.com/publications/EDF9109EE29DF2340379B562365...
      - swader999 5y ago
        Yeah it does appear to be a crap article.
- okaram 5y ago
  There is no evidence ivermectin works against COVID. There is still one large study running, I think, that might show a small effect, but definitely not a big effect. Sorry you had a severe issue with your vaccine.
curryst 5y ago
Or they'll say that the supply chain issues have forced the US to start using larger 5G spyware-mindcontrol whatevers, so they now they need people to take a pill. Or that big pharma wasn't making enough money off ivermectin, so they invented a new pseudo-drug or something. When you believe that core institutions are worse than inept and actively work against you, you can justify anything. I'd call it a coin toss whether they're for or against.

by jdhn 5y ago

I'd say that this will appeal to people who are covid vaccine skeptical. If you're skeptical of the mRNA vaccines, you'd probably be in favor of this treatment than the vaccines.

dboreham 5y ago

Because _absolutely_ _anything_ is less dangerous than mRNA.

epakai 5y ago
mRNA has potential to be dangerous. There is nothing inherently dangerous in what our bodies already use as building instructions, nor is there evidence to suggest current mRNA vaccines cause any of these theoretical issues.
- oblio 5y ago
  Yeah, plus on top of that, anything has the potential to be dangerous. Take, for example, water. Everybody knows about its positive sides, and about most of the negative ones. But 99% of people don't know that water can kill you. I'm not talking about drowning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication If the most benign substance on the surface on the planet can kill you, anything can.
atleta 5y ago
I have bad news for you (unless it was irony, which I can't rule out): the SARS-CoV2 virus contains its genome as RNA that is used directly (IIRC) as mRNA. Because it's needed for the protein synthesis to build new virus particles. This is true for every virus, BTW: they either contain RNA that can be used by the cell for protein synthesis (i.e. mRNA) or they do synthesize (or make the cell synthesize) the mRNA based on their genome, one way or another. So no matter what, you'll get the viral mRNA in your body. Either through infection or through the vaccine. The vaccine just contains a small fragment and it does not proliferate. Unlike the virus.

orra 5y ago

I'm not so certain. People who for whatever irrational reason don't want an mRNA vaccine can take a viral vector vaccine. Yet they don't.

toast0 5y ago
Maybe if they're hesitant for irrational reasons. But if they're hesitant for rational reasons, mRNA vaccines and modified adenovirus vaccines are both new for mass use. There are some inactivated virus vaccines which would be best for people who want to avoid new vaccine types, but AFAIK they haven't even been tested in the US.
nijave 5y ago
Monoclonal antibodies get less pushback https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/health/covid-antibody-regeneron.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/health/covid-antibody-reg... I think there's also some "it won't happen to me" mentality that quickly disappears once it does (which is far too late for a vaccine)
claytongulick 5y ago
I suppose some people would lump me in with "anti-vaxxer" because I don't want to get the Covid vaccine. I'm not anti-vax, btw. I have a medical condition that requires me to receive regular vaccination against several diseases, and I'm strict about doing that on time. I've made a calculated decision in the case of this specific vaccine based on that fact that I've now had Covid twice (first time was a bit nasty, second time was very mild) and have acquired fairly robust natural immunity. According to almost all of the research I've read, natural immunity is at least as effective as the vaccine, which makes sense to me. Our bodies (if healthy) tend to be pretty good at this stuff. The vaccine carries risk, all medical treatments do. When I calculate my baseline risk - very healthy, fit, no cormobidities, etc..., couple it with my acquired natural immunity, my chances of a negative outcome from Covid asymptotically approach zero. This appears to me to be less risk than the vaccine introduces. I say all this to describe my mindset, I think a lot of people share it. Lumping everyone that choses based on a risk calculation to not receive the vaccine as "anti-vaxxer" is a common thing that people do (though I believe it is wrong). All that being said, my primary point is that if I got Covid again, I'd absolutely be receptive to a therapeutic like this. My decision against getting the vaccine was entirely risk based. At the point where I've contracted the illness again, however unlikely, the risk has been realized and I would 100% be receptive to taking this therapeutic if my doctor recommended it.

swader999 5y ago

I had one vaccine dose with severe issues. So maybe I'm skeptical, I won't get a second or third dose. Most people in this camp will just use ivermectin. Including myself, it works and is safe.

tsol 5y ago
The antiviral mechanism of Ivermectin involves the inhibition of nuclear transport by importin α/β1 in the host. It can and has lead to death when improperly dosed.
- loudlambda 5y ago
  Anything can lead to death when improperly dosed.
- swader999 5y ago
  The size of dose you are talking about would be only possible to take if you were contemplating suicide. You left a lot out in regards to the mechanisms of action: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203399/
  - atleta 5y ago
    This article has been retracted 5 months ago. So basically right after publication [1] . [1] https://pubpeer.com/publications/EDF9109EE29DF2340379B562365FE5?utm_source=Firefox&utm_medium=BrowserExtension&utm_campaign=Firefox https://pubpeer.com/publications/EDF9109EE29DF2340379B562365...
    - swader999 5y ago
      Yeah it does appear to be a crap article.
okaram 5y ago
There is no evidence ivermectin works against COVID. There is still one large study running, I think, that might show a small effect, but definitely not a big effect. Sorry you had a severe issue with your vaccine.

curryst 5y ago

Or they'll say that the supply chain issues have forced the US to start using larger 5G spyware-mindcontrol whatevers, so they now they need people to take a pill. Or that big pharma wasn't making enough money off ivermectin, so they invented a new pseudo-drug or something. When you believe that core institutions are worse than inept and actively work against you, you can justify anything. I'd call it a coin toss whether they're for or against.