8 ms·

I went to a similar process to work in the company that I always dreamed to work on: - First interview, HR: 30 minutes - Second round, Code test: 3 hours, I p

I went to a similar process to work in the company that I always dreamed to work on: - First interview, HR: 30 minutes - Second round, Code test: 3 hours, I passed - Third round: Interview with my possible manager (30 minutes), I passed. Then I was informed there were 2 more rounds (a system engineer interview, and a diversity manager). 1 hour each, fine. We can do it. Then out of the blue, I get an email from another HR employee saying that they are testing a new hiring process and now I would have to go through a 2 x 90 minutes pair programming session, with two different engineers, then talk with one engineering manager, then the diversity one, then if everything went well, I would get a job offer (until this point, we didn't even talk about money).. So, basically I'm just giving up on that. It makes me actually sad, because I invested so much energy in the code test, understanding the product, reading actually part of the source code of the product, to come to the meeting with my possible manager as well prepared as possible.. In the end I had the impression that the hiring manager wanted me in the team, but the second HR person didn't really care about it. I was just one more task in his TODO list. EDIT: And actually my question to HN would be: Should I inform the hiring manager why I'm giving up on that?

actually_a_dog 5y ago
Tell them you were tested once and don't care to be tested again. They can make a decision based on the information they already have.
ptr 5y ago
Yes please inform the hiring manager.
Nursie 5y ago
Depends how generous you're feeling, but it might give the hiring manager ammunition to try to get the process changed. IMHO That third round should have been rolled into one longer session (no more than 2 hours). Anything any more convoluted than that is just eating the candidate's time because your processes are bad. Then adding more hurdles... nah. Companies so often miss that you can have a probation period, try someone out in the role, which will give you a much better idea of how it's going to work than selecting for people who will tolerate your byzantine hiring oddyssey
soco 5y ago
Very much inform him, because probably he's the one receiving the drawbacks of an arcane hiring system out of HR's dream... even 5 interviews sounded a lot to me but maybe that's just my experience. On a different topic: what's the diversity manager interview for? And what's the point of a diversity manager?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  Our company just got one and I am honestly unsure what is its purpose beyond being able to say 'see, we are doing stuff'. I am not sure I am even being cynical here. I am relatively certain it is basically a business need now to appear like you are doing something. That said, I have zero idea why diversity manager would interview anyone.. it is not like I am going to change my demographic based on it..
  - pgcj_poster 5y ago
    Promoting diversity is more than just counting the blue people and then the orange people and making sure the numbers are the same. It also involves making an environment that's inviting to different groups of people. They want you play a role in that even – and perhaps especially – if you're part of the majority group.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
      I suppose you could reasonably argue that there is value to that approach, if you are optimizing for it. That said, anecdote incoming, I have this one buddy, who is not very welcoming, but is very good at what he does. Frankly, I think the company would be in a much worse position were it not for him. As a manager.. what do I want more of?
      - soco 5y ago
        I guess they would look whether he's a jerk to everyone equally hehe. Of course there are limits of this, and at some point no amount of genius can compensate lack of teamwork.
RNCTX 5y ago
> And actually my question to HN would be: Should I inform the hiring manager why I'm giving up on that? Ignore their calls and emails for 90 days, then after 6 months email them and CC everyone you got an email from during the first three rounds telling them that you have decided solely based on their hiring process that tech corporations are bad and you are starting a wood chipping business instead.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  That would be funny, and it would certainly feel good, but if you want to actually convey feedbback it's counterproductive
wsc981 5y ago
>Then out of the blue, I get an email from another HR employee saying that they are testing a new hiring process and now I would have to go through a 2 x 90 minutes pair programming session, with two different engineers, then talk with one engineering manager, then the diversity one, then if everything went well, I would get a job offer ... Wouldn't it make sense to talk with the diversity officer at the very first? I am assuming if you don't tick some diversity checkbox, you'll have much lower change to get hired regardless.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  Correct if I'm wrong, but I think it's really hard to evaluate it through a zoom talk, unless a candidate comes to a job interview wanting to make a clear point about his/her views. I was expecting more of a presentation about the company's views in that matter. Thinking on the hiring process as a CI pipeline, I think filtering out people that cannot code is easier and less time consuming, than going through some 1:1 call with their diversity manager.
saint_angels 5y ago
please inform the hiring manager, for the sake of others
stefanos82 5y ago
...and then they are surprised with "The Great Resignation" and that people don't want to get hired anymore and that they gave up. I remember a time when I would go to an interview and be asked the following questions: Interviewer: Do you want to work? Me: Yes, of course! Interviewer: You like learning new things? Me: Always. Interviewer: Is it OK to start on Monday? Me: Sure thing (!), why not? Interviewer: Welcome to FooExample. Me: Thank you very much; see you on Monday. Honestly that was it, nothing complicated, nothing fancy. If a candidate didn't seem competent or effective for a position, by the end of the week warning signs were given to them and if they weren't honest with their management, by the end of the month they were let go; as simple as that. The total number of employees used for the interview cost more than hiring one candidate for one month, don't they understand nor see that?
- pelasaco 5y ago
  I think this is kind of related to that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28031782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28031782
- pelasaco 5y ago
  Now that you said it, I remember my first job interview as well. 1999, Linux administrator in an ISP. - Can you setup a ppp connection on Linux via terminal (I did it, using minicom) - My future manager and partner (I ended up becoming a partner in the ISP, and technical director, some years later), gave me a sendmail book, and asked me to restrict the relay on sendmail using the book. I did it. I was hired, and spent the next years of my life, setting routes on cisco routers and managing some linux and freebsds in a small ISP. It was a great school.
  - b112 5y ago
    So here's the difference now. Back in the 90s, absolutely no one went into computing for the money, or the job prospects. Only people deeply interested in computing did. They gravitated toward it, it was fun, they had an aptitude for it. These days, people enter the field for cash, or because they are mildly interested and it is the best option, out of other mildly interesting things. There is a vast difference between these two classes of candidates. Note, I am not saying that there are no younger employees that fit #1, but merely that they are far outnumbered by those barely able to perform the job. Everyone was self taught in the day, when I started there was no internet to help me, and places like stack overflow came much, much later. If something didn't work, I had to figure it out, no one could help. I had to look at sources, read entire books, learn how to debug, learn debugging tools, etc, etc. Meanwhile, most modern candidates want cash cash cash, and if you ask them use your tool chain, they're pissed. On top of that, I have seen endless candidates come out of College with zero ability for analytical thinking. It's only rote work for them. Without frameworks, sql abstraction, and 100 other crutches, a rote worker cannot do this work. This, I think, is why modern interview processes are so absurd. There's good money now, so naturally everyone wants the job. This leads to the follow up, which is that rote workers are now looking to hire other rote workers. And thus, a rote workers do, they ape other company's processes. They try to hire like google, even thought they are tiny in size, or, even though the type of work is different.
caturopath 5y ago
One big company I interviewed with really annoyed me in the interview process, despite not being quite as many stages as this, and I told them I was done when they asked for me to do the next stage. Years later, some recruiter I talked to said, "I know we passed on you a few years ago". I guess it's good that they were taking responsibility?
- pelasaco 5y ago
  Sometimes I have the impression that even if the job position is already closed, they keep doing the hiring process, because the HR team is there, being paid, so why not just keep people busy, right? What do you think?
  - caturopath 5y ago
    I would have a much more charitable interpretation. At its heart, most organizations are always on the lookout for great people. It's a really bad sign if you don't have room to hire someone great if you find them.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
TBH, "diversity manager" was already a red flag, confirmed later on. IMHO it tells me that HR, with the backing of senior management has gone off track.
- alex-ant 5y ago
  I see it as "we'll be judging you basing on your skin color rather than your knowledge and skills".
  - ectopod 5y ago
    Maybe. Or maybe the interview is to weed out candidates who exhibit wrongthink. Neither option is appealing.
myth_drannon 5y ago
That's actually very typical on site interview for a non-faang North American company right now. You spend a whole day with them and then get a no... And actually they didnt hire anyone for months (based on linkedin insights)
- softwarebeware 5y ago
  I’ve seen this several times now: “everyone loved you and we just decided that now is not the right time to hire for this role” then for the next three months the same exact job is a promoted listing floating on my LinkedIn home page right margin.
  - myth_drannon 5y ago
    Yeah and also a couple of startups continue posting for months in the Who Hiring thread but checking their profile on LinkedIn they are not growing. I understand that there is a need to show outward success but just post the positions on your careers page and simply don't interview people. Or they simply looking for core Rails contributor who is ok with 50,000USD/year
- Aperocky 5y ago
  "Pay is bad but we'll make you jump extra hoops to get it"
- Clubber 5y ago
  I wonder if this isn't to document the requirement for H-1B visas that they tried to find a local candidate but were unable. https://nearshoreamericas.com/us-makes-h1b-visa-harder-obtain/ https://nearshoreamericas.com/us-makes-h1b-visa-harder-obtai... Wouldn't it be hysterical if the hiring process all these companies are cargo-culting was actually designed to not hire people so H-1Bs could be used.
lordnacho 5y ago
Email the hiring manager, tell him you have a number of other firms who are ready to go, but you thought there was some good chemistry between you, and that he needs to act immediately if he wants you. When he throws an offer at you ask for 20% extra and see if you meet him at 10%. If he can't swing HR or the salary, you don't want to work for a wet noodle and you've now dodged a bullet.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  > you've now dodged a bullet. This is a key point that too many of us lose sight of. Getting into a bad relationship is never a positive. When you're (semi) stuck in a bad relationship you'll struggle to find the time and energy to pursue a better relationship.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  great answer! I had to check your profile to be sure that you weren't my dad (that's the kind of answer he would give me) :)
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    Haha thanks. But seriously, when you get an offer, test it. If it falls apart as soon as you try to negotiate anything, run away. This is even if it's your dream job that you think you'll never need to change and pays you way more than you wanted, because if you do like I say and you lose it, you don't lose anything. Porcelain jobs are the worst.
lnxg33k1 5y ago
I'd have pulled out as soon as I understood they had a diversity manager
alex-ant 5y ago
diversity manager - wtf??
Cederfjard 5y ago
Do you mind if I ask so that I understand - would the total number of rounds have added up to seven or nine (i.e. had you finished round four and five before you heard from the second HR person, or only the third)? Is it your understanding that the new hiring process includes all of these steps, or that you ended up in the middle of both the old and the new one and that there was some overlap? Anyway, judging from your story it seems to me like they’ve been very disrespectful of your time. I always ask up front what exactly the process will be, and I would’ve taken it as a bad sign if in the middle of it they had come and told me ”oh by the way we’re experimenting with how we’re doing this, we’ll need you to do a few more interviews than we told you earlier”. I don’t have unlimited time on my hands.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  So, without disclosing which FAANG company was, that is an extract from the e-mail that I received, after I've got a green from the hiring manager and after code review: "Hi $MYNAME, I know that you have already sent over your interview availability but we are in the process of moving to a new interview process so wondered whether you..."
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    Thanks, I think I understand. You had completed three steps, thought there were two left, but out of the blue you were told that there were actually four more, because that's the new process they're moving to. I've never interviewed for a FAANG, but I understand that they can and need to be very picky, and can typically get away with things like seven round hiring processes. I still think it's disrespectful of your time not to let you know the whole process up front, and then sticking to it. Best of luck to you!
nfriedly 5y ago
Yes, you should inform them.
stronglikedan 5y ago
> Should I inform the hiring manager why I'm giving up on that? I would. I've gone to battle with HR over candidates that I've felt strongly about, and I've always won. In my experience, you're dead-on about the TODO list.
101keyboard 5y ago
Well, they assume you are a lemon. This is why the job market has basically collapsed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons "until this point, we didn't even talk about money" Big mistake. For years I was desperate for a job (STEM PhD). Now it would be my first question to ask. And I ask this on the phone before I would even bother to go for an interview. But again, now I don't need your shitty job. Chances are, you need me more than I need you. I remember when I talk to a company once on the phone. Besides that I did not really like the salary, I realized I would not be able to do the job since it was basically two jobs and their chances of success were much slimmer then they were assuming. Didn't bother to go on. But the HR guy said, please apply, worst thing that can happen is that we don't hire you. WRONG. Worst thing that can happen is that I get treated disrespectful in an interview and that I waste time. Most companies value your time with zero. And if you applied already you ask in the first phone interview why they think you are suited for the job. You would be surprised how many people have you come in without ever having looked at your resume and then tell you that you are not a good fit based on your resume in the interview. It is basically the first time they look at it.
- adam12 5y ago
  > WRONG. Worst thing that can happen is that I get treated disrespectful in an interview and that I waste time. Most companies value your time with zero. which can hurt your self-esteem / motivation for the next interview.
  - mcv 5y ago
    Worst thing that can happen is that you get hired by a terrible company with a toxic work environment that doesn't respect its employees. That's wasting way more time and energy than any wasted interview. So if you see red flags and have other options that look more promising, walk away.
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  I find the market for lemons analogy to be unconvincing. It makes sense if employers sold employees to other employers, but it falls apart in the standard labor market. If I am currently employed and job searching, it is because my current employer is a lemon, not me. The prospective employer should be focused on determining my value to them. Everyone has some value (possibly negative, in extreme cases) and if we both agree then we should both be happy. In this context, an employer could be a lemon for a million different reasons.
wonderwonder 5y ago
"until this point, we didn't even talk about money" I wont even go in for an interview unless I know the salary. It's a waste of time otherwise as you and the business may be miles apart. Almost all my jobs are through recruiters. My process is recruiter sends me an email (I get ~15 a week currently) and if the job looks interesting, I respond, say it looks interesting and ask the salary. If they don't give it on the reply I am done. If the salary is too low, I thank them and wish them well. I work for money and nothing else and don't want to waste anyone's time including my own. If this is your first job, still entry level or out of work, I completely understand not asking as you are just looking for a gig.
- 3maj 5y ago
  100% Agree. I'll take the initial phone screening, learn more about the role and the team, but the last question I always have is something along the lines of: "I know you're extremely so in an attempt to not waste anyones time whats the salary range? This way we're all on the same page before moving forwards" I have never gotten a recruiter that doesn't tell me the salary when I do this.
908B64B197 5y ago
> Then I was informed there were 2 more rounds (a system engineer interview, and a diversity manager) A Diversity Manager? Is that a joke? What would that interview even look like? To me, the fact that this company is paying staff to conduct these non-technical interviews for technical staff would be a red flag that they clearly can't allocate resources adequately.
codyb 5y ago
That’s absolutely ridiculous. I would absolutely inform the hiring manager. It’s important to be polite/sympathetic since it’s probable the folk on the other hand don’t know exactly what happened and how you got ground between the process transition gears by being there at exactly the wrong time. It’s also a good sign the company might be in disarray and every day might feel like that there. Anyways, sorry, from the profession as a whole. A lot of us are doing the best we can (even these individuals might be), but hiring generally sucks at the lower levels and gets easier as you become more senior (that’s been my experience). Good luck!

actually_a_dog 5y ago

Tell them you were tested once and don't care to be tested again. They can make a decision based on the information they already have.

ptr 5y ago

Yes please inform the hiring manager.

Nursie 5y ago

Depends how generous you're feeling, but it might give the hiring manager ammunition to try to get the process changed. IMHO That third round should have been rolled into one longer session (no more than 2 hours). Anything any more convoluted than that is just eating the candidate's time because your processes are bad. Then adding more hurdles... nah. Companies so often miss that you can have a probation period, try someone out in the role, which will give you a much better idea of how it's going to work than selecting for people who will tolerate your byzantine hiring oddyssey

soco 5y ago

Very much inform him, because probably he's the one receiving the drawbacks of an arcane hiring system out of HR's dream... even 5 interviews sounded a lot to me but maybe that's just my experience. On a different topic: what's the diversity manager interview for? And what's the point of a diversity manager?

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Our company just got one and I am honestly unsure what is its purpose beyond being able to say 'see, we are doing stuff'. I am not sure I am even being cynical here. I am relatively certain it is basically a business need now to appear like you are doing something. That said, I have zero idea why diversity manager would interview anyone.. it is not like I am going to change my demographic based on it..
- pgcj_poster 5y ago
  Promoting diversity is more than just counting the blue people and then the orange people and making sure the numbers are the same. It also involves making an environment that's inviting to different groups of people. They want you play a role in that even – and perhaps especially – if you're part of the majority group.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I suppose you could reasonably argue that there is value to that approach, if you are optimizing for it. That said, anecdote incoming, I have this one buddy, who is not very welcoming, but is very good at what he does. Frankly, I think the company would be in a much worse position were it not for him. As a manager.. what do I want more of?
    - soco 5y ago
      I guess they would look whether he's a jerk to everyone equally hehe. Of course there are limits of this, and at some point no amount of genius can compensate lack of teamwork.

RNCTX 5y ago

> And actually my question to HN would be: Should I inform the hiring manager why I'm giving up on that? Ignore their calls and emails for 90 days, then after 6 months email them and CC everyone you got an email from during the first three rounds telling them that you have decided solely based on their hiring process that tech corporations are bad and you are starting a wood chipping business instead.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
That would be funny, and it would certainly feel good, but if you want to actually convey feedbback it's counterproductive

wsc981 5y ago

>Then out of the blue, I get an email from another HR employee saying that they are testing a new hiring process and now I would have to go through a 2 x 90 minutes pair programming session, with two different engineers, then talk with one engineering manager, then the diversity one, then if everything went well, I would get a job offer ... Wouldn't it make sense to talk with the diversity officer at the very first? I am assuming if you don't tick some diversity checkbox, you'll have much lower change to get hired regardless.

pelasaco 5y ago
Correct if I'm wrong, but I think it's really hard to evaluate it through a zoom talk, unless a candidate comes to a job interview wanting to make a clear point about his/her views. I was expecting more of a presentation about the company's views in that matter. Thinking on the hiring process as a CI pipeline, I think filtering out people that cannot code is easier and less time consuming, than going through some 1:1 call with their diversity manager.

saint_angels 5y ago

please inform the hiring manager, for the sake of others

stefanos82 5y ago

...and then they are surprised with "The Great Resignation" and that people don't want to get hired anymore and that they gave up. I remember a time when I would go to an interview and be asked the following questions: Interviewer: Do you want to work? Me: Yes, of course! Interviewer: You like learning new things? Me: Always. Interviewer: Is it OK to start on Monday? Me: Sure thing (!), why not? Interviewer: Welcome to FooExample. Me: Thank you very much; see you on Monday. Honestly that was it, nothing complicated, nothing fancy. If a candidate didn't seem competent or effective for a position, by the end of the week warning signs were given to them and if they weren't honest with their management, by the end of the month they were let go; as simple as that. The total number of employees used for the interview cost more than hiring one candidate for one month, don't they understand nor see that?

pelasaco 5y ago
I think this is kind of related to that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28031782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28031782
pelasaco 5y ago
Now that you said it, I remember my first job interview as well. 1999, Linux administrator in an ISP. - Can you setup a ppp connection on Linux via terminal (I did it, using minicom) - My future manager and partner (I ended up becoming a partner in the ISP, and technical director, some years later), gave me a sendmail book, and asked me to restrict the relay on sendmail using the book. I did it. I was hired, and spent the next years of my life, setting routes on cisco routers and managing some linux and freebsds in a small ISP. It was a great school.
- b112 5y ago
  So here's the difference now. Back in the 90s, absolutely no one went into computing for the money, or the job prospects. Only people deeply interested in computing did. They gravitated toward it, it was fun, they had an aptitude for it. These days, people enter the field for cash, or because they are mildly interested and it is the best option, out of other mildly interesting things. There is a vast difference between these two classes of candidates. Note, I am not saying that there are no younger employees that fit #1, but merely that they are far outnumbered by those barely able to perform the job. Everyone was self taught in the day, when I started there was no internet to help me, and places like stack overflow came much, much later. If something didn't work, I had to figure it out, no one could help. I had to look at sources, read entire books, learn how to debug, learn debugging tools, etc, etc. Meanwhile, most modern candidates want cash cash cash, and if you ask them use your tool chain, they're pissed. On top of that, I have seen endless candidates come out of College with zero ability for analytical thinking. It's only rote work for them. Without frameworks, sql abstraction, and 100 other crutches, a rote worker cannot do this work. This, I think, is why modern interview processes are so absurd. There's good money now, so naturally everyone wants the job. This leads to the follow up, which is that rote workers are now looking to hire other rote workers. And thus, a rote workers do, they ape other company's processes. They try to hire like google, even thought they are tiny in size, or, even though the type of work is different.

caturopath 5y ago

One big company I interviewed with really annoyed me in the interview process, despite not being quite as many stages as this, and I told them I was done when they asked for me to do the next stage. Years later, some recruiter I talked to said, "I know we passed on you a few years ago". I guess it's good that they were taking responsibility?

pelasaco 5y ago
Sometimes I have the impression that even if the job position is already closed, they keep doing the hiring process, because the HR team is there, being paid, so why not just keep people busy, right? What do you think?
- caturopath 5y ago
  I would have a much more charitable interpretation. At its heart, most organizations are always on the lookout for great people. It's a really bad sign if you don't have room to hire someone great if you find them.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

TBH, "diversity manager" was already a red flag, confirmed later on. IMHO it tells me that HR, with the backing of senior management has gone off track.

alex-ant 5y ago
I see it as "we'll be judging you basing on your skin color rather than your knowledge and skills".
- ectopod 5y ago
  Maybe. Or maybe the interview is to weed out candidates who exhibit wrongthink. Neither option is appealing.

myth_drannon 5y ago

That's actually very typical on site interview for a non-faang North American company right now. You spend a whole day with them and then get a no... And actually they didnt hire anyone for months (based on linkedin insights)

softwarebeware 5y ago
I’ve seen this several times now: “everyone loved you and we just decided that now is not the right time to hire for this role” then for the next three months the same exact job is a promoted listing floating on my LinkedIn home page right margin.
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  Yeah and also a couple of startups continue posting for months in the Who Hiring thread but checking their profile on LinkedIn they are not growing. I understand that there is a need to show outward success but just post the positions on your careers page and simply don't interview people. Or they simply looking for core Rails contributor who is ok with 50,000USD/year
Aperocky 5y ago
"Pay is bad but we'll make you jump extra hoops to get it"
Clubber 5y ago
I wonder if this isn't to document the requirement for H-1B visas that they tried to find a local candidate but were unable. https://nearshoreamericas.com/us-makes-h1b-visa-harder-obtain/ https://nearshoreamericas.com/us-makes-h1b-visa-harder-obtai... Wouldn't it be hysterical if the hiring process all these companies are cargo-culting was actually designed to not hire people so H-1Bs could be used.

lordnacho 5y ago

Email the hiring manager, tell him you have a number of other firms who are ready to go, but you thought there was some good chemistry between you, and that he needs to act immediately if he wants you. When he throws an offer at you ask for 20% extra and see if you meet him at 10%. If he can't swing HR or the salary, you don't want to work for a wet noodle and you've now dodged a bullet.

chiefalchemist 5y ago
> you've now dodged a bullet. This is a key point that too many of us lose sight of. Getting into a bad relationship is never a positive. When you're (semi) stuck in a bad relationship you'll struggle to find the time and energy to pursue a better relationship.
pelasaco 5y ago
great answer! I had to check your profile to be sure that you weren't my dad (that's the kind of answer he would give me) :)
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Haha thanks. But seriously, when you get an offer, test it. If it falls apart as soon as you try to negotiate anything, run away. This is even if it's your dream job that you think you'll never need to change and pays you way more than you wanted, because if you do like I say and you lose it, you don't lose anything. Porcelain jobs are the worst.

lnxg33k1 5y ago

I'd have pulled out as soon as I understood they had a diversity manager

alex-ant 5y ago

diversity manager - wtf??

Cederfjard 5y ago

Do you mind if I ask so that I understand - would the total number of rounds have added up to seven or nine (i.e. had you finished round four and five before you heard from the second HR person, or only the third)? Is it your understanding that the new hiring process includes all of these steps, or that you ended up in the middle of both the old and the new one and that there was some overlap? Anyway, judging from your story it seems to me like they’ve been very disrespectful of your time. I always ask up front what exactly the process will be, and I would’ve taken it as a bad sign if in the middle of it they had come and told me ”oh by the way we’re experimenting with how we’re doing this, we’ll need you to do a few more interviews than we told you earlier”. I don’t have unlimited time on my hands.

pelasaco 5y ago
So, without disclosing which FAANG company was, that is an extract from the e-mail that I received, after I've got a green from the hiring manager and after code review: "Hi $MYNAME, I know that you have already sent over your interview availability but we are in the process of moving to a new interview process so wondered whether you..."
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  Thanks, I think I understand. You had completed three steps, thought there were two left, but out of the blue you were told that there were actually four more, because that's the new process they're moving to. I've never interviewed for a FAANG, but I understand that they can and need to be very picky, and can typically get away with things like seven round hiring processes. I still think it's disrespectful of your time not to let you know the whole process up front, and then sticking to it. Best of luck to you!

nfriedly 5y ago

Yes, you should inform them.

stronglikedan 5y ago

> Should I inform the hiring manager why I'm giving up on that? I would. I've gone to battle with HR over candidates that I've felt strongly about, and I've always won. In my experience, you're dead-on about the TODO list.

101keyboard 5y ago

Well, they assume you are a lemon. This is why the job market has basically collapsed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons "until this point, we didn't even talk about money" Big mistake. For years I was desperate for a job (STEM PhD). Now it would be my first question to ask. And I ask this on the phone before I would even bother to go for an interview. But again, now I don't need your shitty job. Chances are, you need me more than I need you. I remember when I talk to a company once on the phone. Besides that I did not really like the salary, I realized I would not be able to do the job since it was basically two jobs and their chances of success were much slimmer then they were assuming. Didn't bother to go on. But the HR guy said, please apply, worst thing that can happen is that we don't hire you. WRONG. Worst thing that can happen is that I get treated disrespectful in an interview and that I waste time. Most companies value your time with zero. And if you applied already you ask in the first phone interview why they think you are suited for the job. You would be surprised how many people have you come in without ever having looked at your resume and then tell you that you are not a good fit based on your resume in the interview. It is basically the first time they look at it.

adam12 5y ago
> WRONG. Worst thing that can happen is that I get treated disrespectful in an interview and that I waste time. Most companies value your time with zero. which can hurt your self-esteem / motivation for the next interview.
- mcv 5y ago
  Worst thing that can happen is that you get hired by a terrible company with a toxic work environment that doesn't respect its employees. That's wasting way more time and energy than any wasted interview. So if you see red flags and have other options that look more promising, walk away.
OldHand2018 5y ago
I find the market for lemons analogy to be unconvincing. It makes sense if employers sold employees to other employers, but it falls apart in the standard labor market. If I am currently employed and job searching, it is because my current employer is a lemon, not me. The prospective employer should be focused on determining my value to them. Everyone has some value (possibly negative, in extreme cases) and if we both agree then we should both be happy. In this context, an employer could be a lemon for a million different reasons.

wonderwonder 5y ago

"until this point, we didn't even talk about money" I wont even go in for an interview unless I know the salary. It's a waste of time otherwise as you and the business may be miles apart. Almost all my jobs are through recruiters. My process is recruiter sends me an email (I get ~15 a week currently) and if the job looks interesting, I respond, say it looks interesting and ask the salary. If they don't give it on the reply I am done. If the salary is too low, I thank them and wish them well. I work for money and nothing else and don't want to waste anyone's time including my own. If this is your first job, still entry level or out of work, I completely understand not asking as you are just looking for a gig.

3maj 5y ago
100% Agree. I'll take the initial phone screening, learn more about the role and the team, but the last question I always have is something along the lines of: "I know you're extremely so in an attempt to not waste anyones time whats the salary range? This way we're all on the same page before moving forwards" I have never gotten a recruiter that doesn't tell me the salary when I do this.

908B64B197 5y ago

> Then I was informed there were 2 more rounds (a system engineer interview, and a diversity manager) A Diversity Manager? Is that a joke? What would that interview even look like? To me, the fact that this company is paying staff to conduct these non-technical interviews for technical staff would be a red flag that they clearly can't allocate resources adequately.

codyb 5y ago

That’s absolutely ridiculous. I would absolutely inform the hiring manager. It’s important to be polite/sympathetic since it’s probable the folk on the other hand don’t know exactly what happened and how you got ground between the process transition gears by being there at exactly the wrong time. It’s also a good sign the company might be in disarray and every day might feel like that there. Anyways, sorry, from the profession as a whole. A lot of us are doing the best we can (even these individuals might be), but hiring generally sucks at the lower levels and gets easier as you become more senior (that’s been my experience). Good luck!