5 ms·

They should have copied ARM, but who knew at the time what could be done with 25k transistors? https://www.theregister.com/2012/05/03/unsung_heroes_of_tech_arm

by chasil 5y ago

They should have copied ARM, but who knew at the time what could be done with 25k transistors? https://www.theregister.com/2012/05/03/unsung_heroes_of_tech_arm_creators_sophie_wilson_and_steve_furber/ https://www.theregister.com/2012/05/03/unsung_heroes_of_tech...

jacquesm 5y ago
ARM only properly started in '83, with first working silicon in '85, likely by then the predecessor to this project was already well underway. Besides, I think that they should get credit for making their own design rather than cloning someone else's.
spicyramen 5y ago
The West normally lacks understanding what hard work, innovation and intelligence is a universal value. During my years at Stanford I had the opportunity to learn about the North Korea nuclear program and how the West never imagine the advancement they produced with very limited resources and without Russian help. Couple of professors visited the nuclear facilities as part of the UN investigation and were shocked with the intelligence, and innovation of Korean engineers. The rest is history and we have now a North Korea with nuclear capabilities
- DSingularity 5y ago
  If you want a world where nations aren’t scrambling to acquire nuclear weapons, then maybe we ought to reign in a hegemonic superpower which has been invading and bombing countries since the end of WW2.
  - yholio 5y ago
    It's simpler than that, really: ban all nuclear weapons and bomb the shit out of anyone who attempts to create them. This two-tired world, where the rich guys and their cronies have nuclear weapons, while the second grade countries must submit to their wishes, will clearly leave many nations wanting to balance the scale. History has shown that all countries with security problems develop nuclear weapons as soon as they get to a suficient wealth level.
    - vbezhenar 5y ago
      Nuclear weapons are the only thing preventing WW3, WW4 and so on. We're living in an extremely peaceful world, thanks to nuclear weapons.
      - DemocracyFTW 5y ago
        survivor bias; also cf Leibnitz' "best of possible worlds"
      - jandrese 5y ago
        What nuclear weapons are fantastic at preventing are the regular border skirmishes that counties have fought since the invention of territory. It used to be that counties were constantly gaining or losing land to their neighbors and sometimes even ceasing to exist or appearing out of an existing country. Maps would be constantly in flux. These days situations like that are rare. The Russian annexation of Crimea and the breakup of Yugoslavia being the notable exceptions. All of which did not involve nuclear armed powers (at least on the losing side).
        uuidgen 5y ago
        Pakistan and India would like to disagree.
        jandrese 5y ago
        Have the maps in Kashmir region changed since the late 90s?
    - dragonelite 5y ago
      Banning nuclear weapons would be suicidal with how aggressive NATO nations are in the global south. Having nuclear weapons is like having a nice sharp dagger on the US throat. If you really want to make the world a saver place the US should give up its first strike policy. That will calm down the escalation calculation China or Russia have to make.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  The know how is hardly a secret. Most countries can build a nuclear weapon provided they want to, they are let to do it and they have the raw materials. But you are right, innovation is not a monopoly of the West. During the Soviet times USSR had many technological advances, their population was quite literate in sciences, schools were very good and USSR had many teams winning math and physics Olympics. Having great schools resulted in a large number of scientists and researchers. The situation repeats with China. They invested a lot in scientific education and it is starting to pay off. Meanwhile, in the West, higher education means discussing politics and being woke.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    While the core point holds, that scientific literacy pays off, more discrimination is required about the other side of liberal arts: -- the full realm of human development should be cultivated, and -- there is a crisis in some broad instances of higher education. For example, with reference to the parent: you /should/ discuss politics: only, productively. You do not want your society to be well trained in engineering but underdeveloped in other human qualities fundamental in civilization.
    - DeathArrow 5y ago
      > For example, with reference to the parent: you /should/ discuss politics: only, productively. I would argue that the scope of education is to improve and spread knowledge. Politics might be important for society but it is not within the scope of education. Unless you make education about politics and forget knowledge.
      - gattilorenz 5y ago
        > the scope of education is to improve and spread knowledge. Politics might be important for society but it is not within the scope of education Why is knowledge of politics not knowledge?
        DeathArrow 5y ago
- d3vmax 5y ago
  They may hot have had Russian help, but they did get help from Pakistan. "By 2002, Pakistan had admitted that North Korea had gained access to Pakistan's nuclear technology in the late 1990s." https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/11/aq-khan-pakistan-north-korea-nuclear/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/11/aq-khan-pakistan-north-...
cstross 5y ago
ARM1 shipped in 1985, and it wasn't immediately obvious at the time that it was the way forward. Meanwhile, this LSI-11 clone dates to 1982. Cloning ARM three years in advance would have been a neat trick!
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Precisely. Initial ARM work started in '83 and it wasn't exactly well published until the revealing of the Acorn Archimedes ('87), the BBC Co-processor ('86) was spotted rarely in the field (mostly due to its price). But: nice to reflect on that back in the 80's designing a new CPU could be done with a very small team and modest funding in 2 years time going from drawing board to first silicon (assuming that kind of talent, of course).

by chasil 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago

ARM only properly started in '83, with first working silicon in '85, likely by then the predecessor to this project was already well underway. Besides, I think that they should get credit for making their own design rather than cloning someone else's.

spicyramen 5y ago

The West normally lacks understanding what hard work, innovation and intelligence is a universal value. During my years at Stanford I had the opportunity to learn about the North Korea nuclear program and how the West never imagine the advancement they produced with very limited resources and without Russian help. Couple of professors visited the nuclear facilities as part of the UN investigation and were shocked with the intelligence, and innovation of Korean engineers. The rest is history and we have now a North Korea with nuclear capabilities

DSingularity 5y ago
If you want a world where nations aren’t scrambling to acquire nuclear weapons, then maybe we ought to reign in a hegemonic superpower which has been invading and bombing countries since the end of WW2.
- yholio 5y ago
  It's simpler than that, really: ban all nuclear weapons and bomb the shit out of anyone who attempts to create them. This two-tired world, where the rich guys and their cronies have nuclear weapons, while the second grade countries must submit to their wishes, will clearly leave many nations wanting to balance the scale. History has shown that all countries with security problems develop nuclear weapons as soon as they get to a suficient wealth level.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    Nuclear weapons are the only thing preventing WW3, WW4 and so on. We're living in an extremely peaceful world, thanks to nuclear weapons.
    - DemocracyFTW 5y ago
      survivor bias; also cf Leibnitz' "best of possible worlds"
    - jandrese 5y ago
      What nuclear weapons are fantastic at preventing are the regular border skirmishes that counties have fought since the invention of territory. It used to be that counties were constantly gaining or losing land to their neighbors and sometimes even ceasing to exist or appearing out of an existing country. Maps would be constantly in flux. These days situations like that are rare. The Russian annexation of Crimea and the breakup of Yugoslavia being the notable exceptions. All of which did not involve nuclear armed powers (at least on the losing side).
      - uuidgen 5y ago
        Pakistan and India would like to disagree.
        jandrese 5y ago
        Have the maps in Kashmir region changed since the late 90s?
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    Banning nuclear weapons would be suicidal with how aggressive NATO nations are in the global south. Having nuclear weapons is like having a nice sharp dagger on the US throat. If you really want to make the world a saver place the US should give up its first strike policy. That will calm down the escalation calculation China or Russia have to make.
DeathArrow 5y ago
The know how is hardly a secret. Most countries can build a nuclear weapon provided they want to, they are let to do it and they have the raw materials. But you are right, innovation is not a monopoly of the West. During the Soviet times USSR had many technological advances, their population was quite literate in sciences, schools were very good and USSR had many teams winning math and physics Olympics. Having great schools resulted in a large number of scientists and researchers. The situation repeats with China. They invested a lot in scientific education and it is starting to pay off. Meanwhile, in the West, higher education means discussing politics and being woke.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  While the core point holds, that scientific literacy pays off, more discrimination is required about the other side of liberal arts: -- the full realm of human development should be cultivated, and -- there is a crisis in some broad instances of higher education. For example, with reference to the parent: you /should/ discuss politics: only, productively. You do not want your society to be well trained in engineering but underdeveloped in other human qualities fundamental in civilization.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    > For example, with reference to the parent: you /should/ discuss politics: only, productively. I would argue that the scope of education is to improve and spread knowledge. Politics might be important for society but it is not within the scope of education. Unless you make education about politics and forget knowledge.
    - gattilorenz 5y ago
      > the scope of education is to improve and spread knowledge. Politics might be important for society but it is not within the scope of education Why is knowledge of politics not knowledge?
      - DeathArrow 5y ago
d3vmax 5y ago
They may hot have had Russian help, but they did get help from Pakistan. "By 2002, Pakistan had admitted that North Korea had gained access to Pakistan's nuclear technology in the late 1990s." https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/11/aq-khan-pakistan-north-korea-nuclear/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/11/aq-khan-pakistan-north-...

cstross 5y ago

ARM1 shipped in 1985, and it wasn't immediately obvious at the time that it was the way forward. Meanwhile, this LSI-11 clone dates to 1982. Cloning ARM three years in advance would have been a neat trick!

jacquesm 5y ago
Precisely. Initial ARM work started in '83 and it wasn't exactly well published until the revealing of the Acorn Archimedes ('87), the BBC Co-processor ('86) was spotted rarely in the field (mostly due to its price). But: nice to reflect on that back in the 80's designing a new CPU could be done with a very small team and modest funding in 2 years time going from drawing board to first silicon (assuming that kind of talent, of course).