5 ms·

I love the App Store on the iPhone. I realize it comes with Apple's oversight and values, but I generally feel pretty safe with what I get there. I don't feel t

by tims33 5y ago

I love the App Store on the iPhone. I realize it comes with Apple's oversight and values, but I generally feel pretty safe with what I get there. I don't feel the same way about Google Play Store. Maybe my views are irrational, but my experience has been incredibly positive.

rektide 5y ago
you're allowed whatever your preference. but let's not pretending: you're expressing preference for a system which happens to not inconvenience you but which constraints many folks's choices & desires. i for one think there would be zero real tradeoff permitting others a little of their own preference too. the bigger view is that this is horrific. it's ghastly. it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people.
- tims33 5y ago
  Just join the Android ecosystem then. Everyone has a choice. There is nothing ghastly.
  - rektide 5y ago
    i don't see why we would be so eager or ok with excluding any Apple interested folk in having a platform that works for them. > Just join the Android ecosystem then just stop being intollerant to other options. Apple: stop putting your way of the high way as the only acceptable choice on Apple. this is a machiavellian demand, to constrain a general purpose computer's internet connectivity so.
    - tims33 5y ago
      Apple has already made it clear that there is only one user base they are interested in supporting. They've made a huge business out of supporting only the Apple way. It can certainly be frustrating in some cases, but that is the choice you make joining their ecosystem.
    - uncomputation 5y ago
      It’s a bit of a question what you mean then by “Apple interested folk.” By large, Apple customers value the company’s emphasis on privacy, data control, and quality control of their ecosystem. I suppose you might mean the physical quality of the hardware which is also quite nice, but I think to be an Apple “fan” means also being a fan of the software too. Not every last decision mind you, but the control of the App Store and the Apple platform is pretty central to the brand identity.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- babypuncher 5y ago
  I would have much stronger opinions about this if Android wasn't such a strong competitor. As it stands, it is very easy for people with those "choices and desires" to stick with Android and sideload to their heart's content. The bigger issue with Apple is their 30% cut on nearly all transactions that happen on apps acquired through the App Store.
  - egotripper 5y ago
    Is it really always 30%?
    - babypuncher 5y ago
      I said "nearly", because there are exceptions. I really don't think it's fair that Spotify or Disney+ has to sacrifice 30% of their subscription revenue coming from iOS users considering Apple shoulders almost none of the burdern of hosting that content. I think a fair compromise might be 30% on the first month of a new subscription, followed by 2.5% on subsequent months. That way Apple gets their initial cut for providing the ecosystem and app store exposure, followed by a very small cut on top of the usual payment processing fees.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- fumar 5y ago
  Won’t mention my employer but we track malicious activity across the app ecosystem. Android has a higher rate of fraud and malevolent actors - specific to ads and app inventory.
- denkmoon 5y ago
  > it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people Having just moved from android to iphone, what a load of horse shit. I willingly choose to be in Apple's ecosystem. That control is not imposed, it is given (and can be taken away at any moment by me simply turning off my iphone and not using it again). I have thoughts about the restricted nature of the hardware, but that's a different discussion to the openness of the software ecosystem.
  - rektide 5y ago
    > what a load of horse shit. no, this is horseshit. don't call me horseshit. > I willingly choose to be in Apple's ecosystem. apple is the only "general purpose computing" system on the planet that allows apps but only their approved apps, approve connectivity. this this is, as you say, a load of horse shit. i reassert: > it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people as I said I think freedom costs nothing. what you say offers no counter, no reposte, no reply to this. you can defend the jailers but I'm not sure why you would? why benefit do you see in keeping such immense gates? why raise the drawbridge so high? why the desire to tell people to buzz off, get the frag out if they don't like it? i don't get any of this attitude, this corporate-punk anti-individual spirit. why must this be zero-sum, you and apple teaming up versus choice, freedom, & capability? you're not the only one- there's an active, hating, negative crowd, booing & downvoting capability & choice. in this one circumstance. it's a wild call, such a call to prevent. unfathomable to me. everything about this yearn to control & reduce & assert authority feels like manufacturing consent. for control. for fascism. it's hard to figure out what genuine earnest positive intent it could have.
015a 5y ago
The strongest argument really isn't that the App Store isn't good for consumers. There are examples where it very clearly isn't (cloud game streaming is a great one), but by and large it is positive for consumers. The issue is for developers. The duopoly means developers who demand a first-class mobile presence are forced to abide by Apple's rules. Would Spotify exist today if Apple disallowed its presence in the App Store? That's 60%+ of US mobile subscribers only reachable via the "open web"; a poor experience for a mobile music player. Its likely they would not exist; but Apple Music would. This may sound like a theoretical argument; a problem that isn't a problem because obviously Apple allows Spotify. But consider cloud game streaming services; these compete directly with Apple's mobile gaming revenue. Apple won't allow them on the store. When you get right down to it, their only sin is that, unlike Netflix, Spotify, and Kindle; cloud game streaming apps do not pre-date the App Store. That's the only reason these other cloud media streaming apps are allowed; consumers adopted the iPhone with expectations concerning the nature of their existence. Apple got there first on gaming, then shut the door. Thus, the greatest sin of the iPhone is its behavior toward destroying true innovation. Not a slightly better note-taker or a prettier weather forecast; the App Store is great at distributing that. But, rather, applications Apple hasn't foreseen, now hampered by both the App Store's distribution rules, financial rules, and more fundamentally, the intentionally limited operating system. This is not a situation where these innovations can't exist on the iPhone, but will flourish elsewhere; Apple's stranglehold on the consumer US smartphone market, the primary means of computing for many, many people, means these innovations may never exist at all. Possibly because they can't find a market. Or, more disturbingly; because they would have been invented by our next generation's Steve Wozniak or John Carmack, but instead of growing up with a computing environment which (safely!) nurtures creation, they grew up with the iPhone. And maybe an iPad.
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  Apple also doesn't allow competing browsers, at least none with their own renderer or JS engine. What innovations in that space are we missing out on?
  - barelysapient 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
radmuzom 5y ago
No one cares about how you feel. I want to be able to have the freedom to install whatever I want on a device I have paid for. As this does not infringe on your freedom in any way, I expect my government to legislate on my behalf to force Apple to do what I want.
friedman23 5y ago
And you can continue using the app store if you like even if side loading is allowed?
highwind 5y ago
I once wanted to download a calculator app on an iPad. (After being dumbfounded that there wasn't one included.) But I couldn't find a single quality calculator app and got really frustrated. This was more than 4 years ago though.

by tims33 5y ago

rektide 5y ago

you're allowed whatever your preference. but let's not pretending: you're expressing preference for a system which happens to not inconvenience you but which constraints many folks's choices & desires. i for one think there would be zero real tradeoff permitting others a little of their own preference too. the bigger view is that this is horrific. it's ghastly. it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people.

tims33 5y ago
Just join the Android ecosystem then. Everyone has a choice. There is nothing ghastly.
- rektide 5y ago
  i don't see why we would be so eager or ok with excluding any Apple interested folk in having a platform that works for them. > Just join the Android ecosystem then just stop being intollerant to other options. Apple: stop putting your way of the high way as the only acceptable choice on Apple. this is a machiavellian demand, to constrain a general purpose computer's internet connectivity so.
  - tims33 5y ago
    Apple has already made it clear that there is only one user base they are interested in supporting. They've made a huge business out of supporting only the Apple way. It can certainly be frustrating in some cases, but that is the choice you make joining their ecosystem.
  - uncomputation 5y ago
    It’s a bit of a question what you mean then by “Apple interested folk.” By large, Apple customers value the company’s emphasis on privacy, data control, and quality control of their ecosystem. I suppose you might mean the physical quality of the hardware which is also quite nice, but I think to be an Apple “fan” means also being a fan of the software too. Not every last decision mind you, but the control of the App Store and the Apple platform is pretty central to the brand identity.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
babypuncher 5y ago
I would have much stronger opinions about this if Android wasn't such a strong competitor. As it stands, it is very easy for people with those "choices and desires" to stick with Android and sideload to their heart's content. The bigger issue with Apple is their 30% cut on nearly all transactions that happen on apps acquired through the App Store.
- egotripper 5y ago
  Is it really always 30%?
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    I said "nearly", because there are exceptions. I really don't think it's fair that Spotify or Disney+ has to sacrifice 30% of their subscription revenue coming from iOS users considering Apple shoulders almost none of the burdern of hosting that content. I think a fair compromise might be 30% on the first month of a new subscription, followed by 2.5% on subsequent months. That way Apple gets their initial cut for providing the ecosystem and app store exposure, followed by a very small cut on top of the usual payment processing fees.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
fumar 5y ago
Won’t mention my employer but we track malicious activity across the app ecosystem. Android has a higher rate of fraud and malevolent actors - specific to ads and app inventory.
denkmoon 5y ago
> it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people Having just moved from android to iphone, what a load of horse shit. I willingly choose to be in Apple's ecosystem. That control is not imposed, it is given (and can be taken away at any moment by me simply turning off my iphone and not using it again). I have thoughts about the restricted nature of the hardware, but that's a different discussion to the openness of the software ecosystem.
- rektide 5y ago
  > what a load of horse shit. no, this is horseshit. don't call me horseshit. > I willingly choose to be in Apple's ecosystem. apple is the only "general purpose computing" system on the planet that allows apps but only their approved apps, approve connectivity. this this is, as you say, a load of horse shit. i reassert: > it's a prison of thought/control imposed on most people as I said I think freedom costs nothing. what you say offers no counter, no reposte, no reply to this. you can defend the jailers but I'm not sure why you would? why benefit do you see in keeping such immense gates? why raise the drawbridge so high? why the desire to tell people to buzz off, get the frag out if they don't like it? i don't get any of this attitude, this corporate-punk anti-individual spirit. why must this be zero-sum, you and apple teaming up versus choice, freedom, & capability? you're not the only one- there's an active, hating, negative crowd, booing & downvoting capability & choice. in this one circumstance. it's a wild call, such a call to prevent. unfathomable to me. everything about this yearn to control & reduce & assert authority feels like manufacturing consent. for control. for fascism. it's hard to figure out what genuine earnest positive intent it could have.

015a 5y ago

The strongest argument really isn't that the App Store isn't good for consumers. There are examples where it very clearly isn't (cloud game streaming is a great one), but by and large it is positive for consumers. The issue is for developers. The duopoly means developers who demand a first-class mobile presence are forced to abide by Apple's rules. Would Spotify exist today if Apple disallowed its presence in the App Store? That's 60%+ of US mobile subscribers only reachable via the "open web"; a poor experience for a mobile music player. Its likely they would not exist; but Apple Music would. This may sound like a theoretical argument; a problem that isn't a problem because obviously Apple allows Spotify. But consider cloud game streaming services; these compete directly with Apple's mobile gaming revenue. Apple won't allow them on the store. When you get right down to it, their only sin is that, unlike Netflix, Spotify, and Kindle; cloud game streaming apps do not pre-date the App Store. That's the only reason these other cloud media streaming apps are allowed; consumers adopted the iPhone with expectations concerning the nature of their existence. Apple got there first on gaming, then shut the door. Thus, the greatest sin of the iPhone is its behavior toward destroying true innovation. Not a slightly better note-taker or a prettier weather forecast; the App Store is great at distributing that. But, rather, applications Apple hasn't foreseen, now hampered by both the App Store's distribution rules, financial rules, and more fundamentally, the intentionally limited operating system. This is not a situation where these innovations can't exist on the iPhone, but will flourish elsewhere; Apple's stranglehold on the consumer US smartphone market, the primary means of computing for many, many people, means these innovations may never exist at all. Possibly because they can't find a market. Or, more disturbingly; because they would have been invented by our next generation's Steve Wozniak or John Carmack, but instead of growing up with a computing environment which (safely!) nurtures creation, they grew up with the iPhone. And maybe an iPad.

jonny_eh 5y ago
Apple also doesn't allow competing browsers, at least none with their own renderer or JS engine. What innovations in that space are we missing out on?
- barelysapient 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

radmuzom 5y ago

No one cares about how you feel. I want to be able to have the freedom to install whatever I want on a device I have paid for. As this does not infringe on your freedom in any way, I expect my government to legislate on my behalf to force Apple to do what I want.

friedman23 5y ago

And you can continue using the app store if you like even if side loading is allowed?

highwind 5y ago

I once wanted to download a calculator app on an iPad. (After being dumbfounded that there wasn't one included.) But I couldn't find a single quality calculator app and got really frustrated. This was more than 4 years ago though.