4 ms·

And for users this is solved by disabling webfonts and forcing your chosen system font on all pages. It's even an option in Firefox. And not something that's h

by megous 5y ago

And for users this is solved by disabling webfonts and forcing your chosen system font on all pages. It's even an option in Firefox. And not something that's hidden in about:config. one of the benefits of Firefox over Chrome. Only thing that breaks is when developers abuse fonts to display random icons in non-standard ways (other than unicode symbols/emoji/...).

Dylan16807 5y ago
> And for users this is solved by disabling webfonts and forcing your chosen system font on all pages. Overriding everything to font-display: optional also forcefully solves the problem but with much less collateral damage.
- ddingus 5y ago
  "Damage" In many cases, I just want to read it. Discussions like this sometimes make me wonder what the value really is. Of course, it is hard to know. For everyone like me, there are others who lose value when presentation is too coarse. And don't get me wrong. I love well presented material, type, layout all done well. These things do matter. Same with visuals, graphs, animations... I am not sure damage is the right word.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Less "wonkiness caused by things working differently than intended by the designer and being in a possibly untested configuration", then?
    - ddingus 5y ago
      Maybe. Pain seems apt. Just wanted to share perspective.
  - Kim_Bruning 5y ago
    Heh, I wonder if there has been an Overton window shift here. You're making me wonder if having an option to load pages in "readability mode" by default might be a way to go, going forward. That should work great for the majority of content linked from HN at any rate. The advantage is that you get one consistent view of the web tailored to your preferences. (putting the user back in control, like in early browsers in the 90s).
    - extra88 5y ago
      Safari (all versions) lets you set domains to load in readability mode. 'Auto Reader View' extension adds the same thing to Firefox. It looks like Safari for Mac can make readability mode the default for all sites, if you go into Preferences > Websites > Reader and set "When visiting other websites" to On. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-reader-view/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-reader-v...
    - ddingus 5y ago
      Maybe! That resonates with me. I am inclined to give that a try myself. Maybe simulate it with a quick hack, or just enter the mode on some new links as I encounter them to see how it feels. Here's a similar discussion: The move to standardize one space after period at end of sentence. I hate it. Many others love it, and I sometimes wonder at just how differently we appear to value things. Input on mobile is a mess because there is no longer any way to differentiate between a period marking an abbreviation and one at end of sentence. The autocorrect function, intended to help with touch input is a mess now too. And when I use Voice input, I get a lot of randomly capitalized Words because of how this has played out. When I reset my mobile dictionary, that goes away, but so does all the benefit of the "learned words" function. To me, that seems more like real damage. Yet when I go to discuss this with people, I get a similar response to what we saw here. Your Overton Window point resonates! And I'm only making this one to just kind of illustrate the minor struggle in these kinds of things, and that there are a lot of these little Struggles kind of just dragging us down on many fronts, and I don't think we notice all of them.
- megous 5y ago
  Interesting, I guess that works when font-family has only webfont and no fallback? While you're at it, do you have any tips for disabling all font-weights < 400 and force them to 400? :) Something like: min-font-weight: 400 !important; And I'll be one very happy web user. I'm forced to do it with a userscript currently, which is less than optimal.
nemetroid 5y ago
Yeah. I use web browsers to read text. My system has perfectly good fonts available. There's no need to go around downloading new (usually less readable) ones.

by megous 5y ago

Dylan16807 5y ago

> And for users this is solved by disabling webfonts and forcing your chosen system font on all pages. Overriding everything to font-display: optional also forcefully solves the problem but with much less collateral damage.

ddingus 5y ago
"Damage" In many cases, I just want to read it. Discussions like this sometimes make me wonder what the value really is. Of course, it is hard to know. For everyone like me, there are others who lose value when presentation is too coarse. And don't get me wrong. I love well presented material, type, layout all done well. These things do matter. Same with visuals, graphs, animations... I am not sure damage is the right word.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Less "wonkiness caused by things working differently than intended by the designer and being in a possibly untested configuration", then?
  - ddingus 5y ago
    Maybe. Pain seems apt. Just wanted to share perspective.
- Kim_Bruning 5y ago
  Heh, I wonder if there has been an Overton window shift here. You're making me wonder if having an option to load pages in "readability mode" by default might be a way to go, going forward. That should work great for the majority of content linked from HN at any rate. The advantage is that you get one consistent view of the web tailored to your preferences. (putting the user back in control, like in early browsers in the 90s).
  - extra88 5y ago
    Safari (all versions) lets you set domains to load in readability mode. 'Auto Reader View' extension adds the same thing to Firefox. It looks like Safari for Mac can make readability mode the default for all sites, if you go into Preferences > Websites > Reader and set "When visiting other websites" to On. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-reader-view/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-reader-v...
  - ddingus 5y ago
    Maybe! That resonates with me. I am inclined to give that a try myself. Maybe simulate it with a quick hack, or just enter the mode on some new links as I encounter them to see how it feels. Here's a similar discussion: The move to standardize one space after period at end of sentence. I hate it. Many others love it, and I sometimes wonder at just how differently we appear to value things. Input on mobile is a mess because there is no longer any way to differentiate between a period marking an abbreviation and one at end of sentence. The autocorrect function, intended to help with touch input is a mess now too. And when I use Voice input, I get a lot of randomly capitalized Words because of how this has played out. When I reset my mobile dictionary, that goes away, but so does all the benefit of the "learned words" function. To me, that seems more like real damage. Yet when I go to discuss this with people, I get a similar response to what we saw here. Your Overton Window point resonates! And I'm only making this one to just kind of illustrate the minor struggle in these kinds of things, and that there are a lot of these little Struggles kind of just dragging us down on many fronts, and I don't think we notice all of them.
megous 5y ago
Interesting, I guess that works when font-family has only webfont and no fallback? While you're at it, do you have any tips for disabling all font-weights < 400 and force them to 400? :) Something like: min-font-weight: 400 !important; And I'll be one very happy web user. I'm forced to do it with a userscript currently, which is less than optimal.

nemetroid 5y ago

Yeah. I use web browsers to read text. My system has perfectly good fonts available. There's no need to go around downloading new (usually less readable) ones.