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> I honestly don't get why people are so focused suddenly on the power consumption for a desktop CPU designed for enthusiasts who want top performance at any co

> I honestly don't get why people are so focused suddenly on the power consumption for a desktop CPU designed for enthusiasts who want top performance at any cost. Because if you up the Power/Current limits on a Ryzen, they will run faster - especially in tests like Cinebench. You won't even have to 'overclock' them. Simply allow them to draw more power if your cooling, motherboard, and PSU can handle it. To make that a fair test the tester would have had to crank those settings up as far as they go, or until they match the Intel processor. If the Intel processor is allowed to draw 250W, the Ryzen should get the same treatment. For example a Ryzen 5900X at ~135W (CPU Package) should score around 8200 in Cinebench r20, and at ~200W it should score around 8900. Since in the test those 200W are apparently for the whole system, it's pretty obvious the tester left those at the stock values.

BoorishBears 5y ago
So will Intels parts and so will GPUs for that matter. It's still overclocking. PBO will drive a 5950X to something like 310W in some applications.
- chmod775 5y ago
  Overclocking is running a CPU at higher clock speeds than advertised. If you just change PBO limits, it never goes beyond what AMD knows their silicon can handle, and what is sold to the customer. Individual cores might already be boosting to those clock speeds over short intervals. You're just allowing more cores to do that and longer, within your configured power limits. The expectation here is thermal throttling, not an unstable system.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    Oh please. No one pretends PBO is not overclocking. Not even AMD: > Precision Boost 2 is a performance-maximizing technology available in all AMD Ryzen™ and Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2000 Series processors (or newer). This technology can improve your PC’s performance by raising clockspeeds - And PBO still voids your warranty and does not magically respect some limit: https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/understanding-precision-boost-overdrive-in-three-easy-steps/ba-p/416136 https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/understanding-precision-... > Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. - Reply because I'm getting rate limited, probably over that one time I wasn't nice to dang > Changing these values will not make your CPU reach voltages it wouldn't otherwise have reached, nor will it make your CPU reach clock speeds it wouldn't otherwise hit. This is patently false! I don't know where you got this idea when I literally just quoted AMD saying it raises clocks past factory specifications! Also sure where you think the additional power draw comes from... AMD literally uses the tagline: "Precision Boost Overdrive: A Smarter Way to Overclock" - I see no point in continuing a conversation with someone who doesn't understand the basic tenets of the technology they're trying to split hairs over. PBO is overclocking. Simple as that.
    - chmod775 5y ago
      PBO allows overclocking[1]. But it mainly allows you to configure other stuff, liking raising/lowering certain limits, that are not overclocking. Changing these values will not make your CPU reach voltages it wouldn't otherwise have reached, nor will it make your CPU reach clock speeds it wouldn't otherwise hit. It will however make your CPU draw more amps and use more watts to sustain clocks for longer than normal and on more cores at once. Allowing here means that in the typical motherboard you'll have to change PBO from the default "Auto" to "Manual" to see these settings. Where do terms like "undervolting", "overvolting", "setting TDP" even fit in your vocabulary if you insist everything is to be called "overclocking"? These terms should be literally self-explanatory. [1] But only technically, because for some reason the AutoOC feature is found in the PBO menu on motherboards, even though AutoOC is not part of PBO. They are however typically marketed together.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      That's not a very technical article, though. Are you calling this explanation completely wrong?: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision... This is someone who should really know what they're talking about. > What is important to note is that PBO only affects these three power limits. The effect on CPU clock speed is indirect, and PBO will never boost the CPU past the advertised clocks. I think it's fair to say adjusting power limits falls under a deliberately broad "overclocking" umbrella, but it's not really overclocking, and doesn't require you to do the effort part of real overclocking. > This is patently false! I don't know where you got this idea when I literally just quoted AMD saying it raises clocks past factory specifications! The part you quoted doesn't have the word 'clocks'.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        > The part you quoted doesn't have the word 'clocks'. If you don't know clocks is slang for clockspeed, you're out of your depth. So just stop talking. > This technology can improve your PC’s performance by raising clockspeeds And you're saying that technical documents from AMD don't know what they're talking about (it's a technical document. It's a technical article.) But GN, the kings of stating guesses confidently with the worst understanding of statistics I've ever seen to an uninformed crowd do? Please. I don't even care how you cope with PBO being an overclock anymore, call it a "raising clock speeds over stock" if it helps you sleep.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> To make that a fair test the tester would have had to crank those settings up as far as they go, or until they match the Intel processor. The test was perfectly fair because they used the CPU as delivered, as the average user would use it. Nobody is buying these CPUs to overclock them to a specific power usage. They're either running them stock or running them at whatever comfortable overclock they can get away with. Test stock versus stock and overclocked versus overclocked. Trying to normalize to specific power consumption doesn't make sense for enthusiast builds.
- chmod775 5y ago
  > Trying to normalize to specific power consumption doesn't make sense for enthusiast builds. You surely mean "for low end" builds? Because for enthusiast builds it makes a lot of sense. Why would you set up "enthusiast" level cooling that can handle 200W and higher, and then keep your CPU set to the default 135W? At that point one should be buying prebuilt and hope the manufacturer properly sets up the system, because one clearly can't.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Nobody is buying these CPUs to overclock them to a specific power usage" I am my friends are these 'nobody', we cant be arsed to overclock but want them to use all power avaliable

BoorishBears 5y ago

So will Intels parts and so will GPUs for that matter. It's still overclocking. PBO will drive a 5950X to something like 310W in some applications.

chmod775 5y ago
Overclocking is running a CPU at higher clock speeds than advertised. If you just change PBO limits, it never goes beyond what AMD knows their silicon can handle, and what is sold to the customer. Individual cores might already be boosting to those clock speeds over short intervals. You're just allowing more cores to do that and longer, within your configured power limits. The expectation here is thermal throttling, not an unstable system.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  Oh please. No one pretends PBO is not overclocking. Not even AMD: > Precision Boost 2 is a performance-maximizing technology available in all AMD Ryzen™ and Ryzen™ Threadripper™ 2000 Series processors (or newer). This technology can improve your PC’s performance by raising clockspeeds - And PBO still voids your warranty and does not magically respect some limit: https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/understanding-precision-boost-overdrive-in-three-easy-steps/ba-p/416136 https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/understanding-precision-... > Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. - Reply because I'm getting rate limited, probably over that one time I wasn't nice to dang > Changing these values will not make your CPU reach voltages it wouldn't otherwise have reached, nor will it make your CPU reach clock speeds it wouldn't otherwise hit. This is patently false! I don't know where you got this idea when I literally just quoted AMD saying it raises clocks past factory specifications! Also sure where you think the additional power draw comes from... AMD literally uses the tagline: "Precision Boost Overdrive: A Smarter Way to Overclock" - I see no point in continuing a conversation with someone who doesn't understand the basic tenets of the technology they're trying to split hairs over. PBO is overclocking. Simple as that.
  - chmod775 5y ago
    PBO allows overclocking[1]. But it mainly allows you to configure other stuff, liking raising/lowering certain limits, that are not overclocking. Changing these values will not make your CPU reach voltages it wouldn't otherwise have reached, nor will it make your CPU reach clock speeds it wouldn't otherwise hit. It will however make your CPU draw more amps and use more watts to sustain clocks for longer than normal and on more cores at once. Allowing here means that in the typical motherboard you'll have to change PBO from the default "Auto" to "Manual" to see these settings. Where do terms like "undervolting", "overvolting", "setting TDP" even fit in your vocabulary if you insist everything is to be called "overclocking"? These terms should be literally self-explanatory. [1] But only technically, because for some reason the AutoOC feature is found in the PBO menu on motherboards, even though AutoOC is not part of PBO. They are however typically marketed together.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    That's not a very technical article, though. Are you calling this explanation completely wrong?: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision... This is someone who should really know what they're talking about. > What is important to note is that PBO only affects these three power limits. The effect on CPU clock speed is indirect, and PBO will never boost the CPU past the advertised clocks. I think it's fair to say adjusting power limits falls under a deliberately broad "overclocking" umbrella, but it's not really overclocking, and doesn't require you to do the effort part of real overclocking. > This is patently false! I don't know where you got this idea when I literally just quoted AMD saying it raises clocks past factory specifications! The part you quoted doesn't have the word 'clocks'.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      > The part you quoted doesn't have the word 'clocks'. If you don't know clocks is slang for clockspeed, you're out of your depth. So just stop talking. > This technology can improve your PC’s performance by raising clockspeeds And you're saying that technical documents from AMD don't know what they're talking about (it's a technical document. It's a technical article.) But GN, the kings of stating guesses confidently with the worst understanding of statistics I've ever seen to an uninformed crowd do? Please. I don't even care how you cope with PBO being an overclock anymore, call it a "raising clock speeds over stock" if it helps you sleep.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> To make that a fair test the tester would have had to crank those settings up as far as they go, or until they match the Intel processor. The test was perfectly fair because they used the CPU as delivered, as the average user would use it. Nobody is buying these CPUs to overclock them to a specific power usage. They're either running them stock or running them at whatever comfortable overclock they can get away with. Test stock versus stock and overclocked versus overclocked. Trying to normalize to specific power consumption doesn't make sense for enthusiast builds.

chmod775 5y ago
> Trying to normalize to specific power consumption doesn't make sense for enthusiast builds. You surely mean "for low end" builds? Because for enthusiast builds it makes a lot of sense. Why would you set up "enthusiast" level cooling that can handle 200W and higher, and then keep your CPU set to the default 135W? At that point one should be buying prebuilt and hope the manufacturer properly sets up the system, because one clearly can't.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Nobody is buying these CPUs to overclock them to a specific power usage" I am my friends are these 'nobody', we cant be arsed to overclock but want them to use all power avaliable