5 ms·

It sounds like you may have had a very unorthodox childhood and may not realize it. No, my parents didn't have access to, or knowledge about my things. As soon

It sounds like you may have had a very unorthodox childhood and may not realize it. No, my parents didn't have access to, or knowledge about my things. As soon as you entrust a child with a document, it is up to that child whether that document survives more than a few steps out of the classroom, let alone whether a parent ever knows about it. That is a very strong form of autonomy, important to a child's development, that the app completely eliminates. The stress you are talking about seems to me like the hallmark of an overbearing parent. Let your child fail sometimes. That's ok, they need to experience that, that's how you learn. You can't let them think that someone else will always take care of the things they don't. You're not doing them any favors by ensuring they always succeed.

wonderwonder 5y ago
I think maybe we are thinking of distinctly different age groups. My kids are in elementary school, they are sent home with a folder everyday that lists what is due. Teacher told us at the beginning of the year that this would happen. If my kid suddenly did not bring his folder home I would know something was wrong. "The stress you are talking about seems to me like the hallmark of an overbearing parent" Maybe but I have kids, and most of the parents I know are the same way, so I guess there are a ton of us that are wrong. Your opinion may change once you have kids. "Let your child fail sometimes. That's ok, they need to experience that, that's how you learn." Appreciate the advice and I accept it as its advice I would have given when I did not have kids, thought I had it all figured out and believed raising kids was easy.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
We should leave them out on the hills to fend for themselves, feeding them will only make them weak! /s
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  You overdramatise the point, but yes! You feed the toddler. You pack and give food to the 5-10 year old. They feed themselves. You supervise the 10-teenageish to gather/pack their own food. After "teenageish" you do in fact leave them out on the hills to fend for themselves... ... and part of fending for yourself, is to know when to ask for help. But the terms of help is hopefully between two capable humans at that point. In the school system, I would expect that teachers are not asking 5-10 year olds to do complicated tasks. But to do simple tasks outside of school hours (homework) and know how to dress on any given day is totally appropriate. Parents can assist their kid to be so organised as and how they can. But the kid themselves are responsible to the school if they aren't.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    > know how to dress on any given day is totally appropriate No, 5year-olds can't [all] track the three different "special" outfit days in a week and know whether to take in the clothes or dress in them in the morning. Many five-year-olds don't know which day comes after which, and most don't have literary skills to write themselves a reminder or to log on to a computer calendar and check. They need parental help. I can tell you that some of us parents find it difficult to track these things and keep everything straight, too. Teachers absolutely do ask children to do tasks they can't achieve on their own (eg. I guess maybe rich families might have all the stuff to do an impromptu craft project but if you need pipe-cleaners and black card to make a spider for Hallowe'en then you need an adult to shop for/with you). But parent-child cooperative projects lead to better outcomes and children feel more engaged when their parents take part with them. In our house there's no space in our kitchen for each person to make their own sandwiches, and that would be super inefficient. But yes, teenagers could take turns making for everyone; that's not good for our family though.
Larrikin 5y ago
When you let elementary school children fail constantly at easy tasks because they forgot about them it just instills in them that the grades don't really matter. Little children need the habit formation brought on by asking if their homework is done everyday, how they're doing in school, and if there are any upcoming projects because they just don't have the discipline at that age usually. As they get older these checks can lessen if they've formed the correct habits. It also emphasizes that their education is important to you so that they realize it probably should be important to them. Some children form it earlier than others but you're setting your future kid up for failure and being behind early if you think you should be totally hands off with their education. Also all the other good parents will be ensuring their kids succeed and children start getting sorted out by grades fairly early in their education. Letting them take a bunch of preventable failures early on before they even realize the importance of education, when you do just seems cruel.
- teawrecks 5y ago
  You spent a lot of effort responding to a strawman that isn't at all the point I'm making.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  You seemed to reinforce the GPs point? To do all the things you said, does not require me to have an itinerary app or sheet. It requires me to ask my kid, be involved with my kid, support my kid to be organised.
lazyasciiart 5y ago
I think their childhood sounds absolutely normal and you may be the unorthodox one.

wonderwonder 5y ago

I think maybe we are thinking of distinctly different age groups. My kids are in elementary school, they are sent home with a folder everyday that lists what is due. Teacher told us at the beginning of the year that this would happen. If my kid suddenly did not bring his folder home I would know something was wrong. "The stress you are talking about seems to me like the hallmark of an overbearing parent" Maybe but I have kids, and most of the parents I know are the same way, so I guess there are a ton of us that are wrong. Your opinion may change once you have kids. "Let your child fail sometimes. That's ok, they need to experience that, that's how you learn." Appreciate the advice and I accept it as its advice I would have given when I did not have kids, thought I had it all figured out and believed raising kids was easy.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

We should leave them out on the hills to fend for themselves, feeding them will only make them weak! /s

_carbyau_ 5y ago
You overdramatise the point, but yes! You feed the toddler. You pack and give food to the 5-10 year old. They feed themselves. You supervise the 10-teenageish to gather/pack their own food. After "teenageish" you do in fact leave them out on the hills to fend for themselves... ... and part of fending for yourself, is to know when to ask for help. But the terms of help is hopefully between two capable humans at that point. In the school system, I would expect that teachers are not asking 5-10 year olds to do complicated tasks. But to do simple tasks outside of school hours (homework) and know how to dress on any given day is totally appropriate. Parents can assist their kid to be so organised as and how they can. But the kid themselves are responsible to the school if they aren't.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  > know how to dress on any given day is totally appropriate No, 5year-olds can't [all] track the three different "special" outfit days in a week and know whether to take in the clothes or dress in them in the morning. Many five-year-olds don't know which day comes after which, and most don't have literary skills to write themselves a reminder or to log on to a computer calendar and check. They need parental help. I can tell you that some of us parents find it difficult to track these things and keep everything straight, too. Teachers absolutely do ask children to do tasks they can't achieve on their own (eg. I guess maybe rich families might have all the stuff to do an impromptu craft project but if you need pipe-cleaners and black card to make a spider for Hallowe'en then you need an adult to shop for/with you). But parent-child cooperative projects lead to better outcomes and children feel more engaged when their parents take part with them. In our house there's no space in our kitchen for each person to make their own sandwiches, and that would be super inefficient. But yes, teenagers could take turns making for everyone; that's not good for our family though.

Larrikin 5y ago

When you let elementary school children fail constantly at easy tasks because they forgot about them it just instills in them that the grades don't really matter. Little children need the habit formation brought on by asking if their homework is done everyday, how they're doing in school, and if there are any upcoming projects because they just don't have the discipline at that age usually. As they get older these checks can lessen if they've formed the correct habits. It also emphasizes that their education is important to you so that they realize it probably should be important to them. Some children form it earlier than others but you're setting your future kid up for failure and being behind early if you think you should be totally hands off with their education. Also all the other good parents will be ensuring their kids succeed and children start getting sorted out by grades fairly early in their education. Letting them take a bunch of preventable failures early on before they even realize the importance of education, when you do just seems cruel.

teawrecks 5y ago
You spent a lot of effort responding to a strawman that isn't at all the point I'm making.
_carbyau_ 5y ago
You seemed to reinforce the GPs point? To do all the things you said, does not require me to have an itinerary app or sheet. It requires me to ask my kid, be involved with my kid, support my kid to be organised.

lazyasciiart 5y ago

I think their childhood sounds absolutely normal and you may be the unorthodox one.