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My naive mind always hoped Amazon would develop hybrid airships for trans-oceanic transport. I imagined old oil platforms converted into off-shore loading/unlo

My naive mind always hoped Amazon would develop hybrid airships for trans-oceanic transport. I imagined old oil platforms converted into off-shore loading/unloading platforms located just off of continents and giant automated hybrid airships moving cargo between them. One could take advantage of natural air currents at altitude and spend very little energy on propulsion. I'm sure there are likely show stoppers, but it makes sense to me without too close a look. One thing is the last sea-mile... not sure how that would work exactly. But at least the airships would probably not use sulfur-rich bunker fuel.

nradov 5y ago
Ships have been required to use low sulphur fuel since 2020. Hybrid airships might eventually find a niche for military use or transport to remote areas but they'll never be viable for large scale long distance cargo transport. Helium is too expensive and they have trouble flying high enough to get above bad weather. It's just a silly idea, the economics will never work.
- yunohn 5y ago
  > Ships have been required to use low sulphur fuel since 2020. I find this strong assertion quite odd, as “since 2020” is just a year ago. Plus, laws like these are always bypassed (1) (2). (1) https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-science/ships-using-cheat-devices-to-bypass-emissions-regulations/article/558991 https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-science/ships-using-chea... (2) https://wwf.ca/stories/scrubbers-creates-new-pollution/ https://wwf.ca/stories/scrubbers-creates-new-pollution/
- Ancapistani 5y ago
  IIRC, hydrogen would be much cheaper and is lighter. The only thing stopping its use in the US is archaic law/regulation by the FAA that was put in place in the wake of the Hindenburg disaster. Hydrogen doesn't burn without oxygen, and modern designs eliminate the risk of a leak that would result in a highly flammable gas mixture. Being outside US airspace in this example, that wouldn't be a problem.
- consumer451 5y ago
  > It's just a silly idea, the economics will never work. I am aware that this idea is silly. That's why I started with "my naive mind..." But let's keep going with the thought experiment while we are here. > Helium is too expensive Significant new sources have been found in Africa, this might help. However, if you were always over the ocean, and fully automated, I see no reason why hydrogen wouldn't be practical. Also, the hybrid ships I've read about all had a closed-loop helium system. > they have trouble flying high enough to get above bad weather. Agreed, this is the main problem of which I am aware. It would take billions in development and might not ever work. The benefit of staying over oceans and being fully unmanned might mitigate some risks. We never had orbital-class rocket boosters that could land before, now we do. "Impossible" things are sometimes possible. The main crux of this idea to me was that there are some benefits to having one player, Amazon, be a such a large shipping consumer. It would be neat if our species derived some benefit from that level of concentration. Amazon could be working on moonshot type projects in shipping. The hybrid airship was just one thought. edit: oops, just realized that user Ancapistani made a great case for hydrogen as well
aksss 5y ago
Isn't a question of energy density? I mean how much cargo you can move per ton (or kg) of fuel. Container ships are enormously efficient by this measurement compared to most alternatives I can think of. How many containers could an airship transport, and how long would it take them to move it across the ocean? In theory they could directly load trucks with a sky crane mechanism. It sounds nice but very inefficient.

nradov 5y ago

Ships have been required to use low sulphur fuel since 2020. Hybrid airships might eventually find a niche for military use or transport to remote areas but they'll never be viable for large scale long distance cargo transport. Helium is too expensive and they have trouble flying high enough to get above bad weather. It's just a silly idea, the economics will never work.

yunohn 5y ago
> Ships have been required to use low sulphur fuel since 2020. I find this strong assertion quite odd, as “since 2020” is just a year ago. Plus, laws like these are always bypassed (1) (2). (1) https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-science/ships-using-cheat-devices-to-bypass-emissions-regulations/article/558991 https://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-science/ships-using-chea... (2) https://wwf.ca/stories/scrubbers-creates-new-pollution/ https://wwf.ca/stories/scrubbers-creates-new-pollution/
Ancapistani 5y ago
IIRC, hydrogen would be much cheaper and is lighter. The only thing stopping its use in the US is archaic law/regulation by the FAA that was put in place in the wake of the Hindenburg disaster. Hydrogen doesn't burn without oxygen, and modern designs eliminate the risk of a leak that would result in a highly flammable gas mixture. Being outside US airspace in this example, that wouldn't be a problem.
consumer451 5y ago
> It's just a silly idea, the economics will never work. I am aware that this idea is silly. That's why I started with "my naive mind..." But let's keep going with the thought experiment while we are here. > Helium is too expensive Significant new sources have been found in Africa, this might help. However, if you were always over the ocean, and fully automated, I see no reason why hydrogen wouldn't be practical. Also, the hybrid ships I've read about all had a closed-loop helium system. > they have trouble flying high enough to get above bad weather. Agreed, this is the main problem of which I am aware. It would take billions in development and might not ever work. The benefit of staying over oceans and being fully unmanned might mitigate some risks. We never had orbital-class rocket boosters that could land before, now we do. "Impossible" things are sometimes possible. The main crux of this idea to me was that there are some benefits to having one player, Amazon, be a such a large shipping consumer. It would be neat if our species derived some benefit from that level of concentration. Amazon could be working on moonshot type projects in shipping. The hybrid airship was just one thought. edit: oops, just realized that user Ancapistani made a great case for hydrogen as well

aksss 5y ago

Isn't a question of energy density? I mean how much cargo you can move per ton (or kg) of fuel. Container ships are enormously efficient by this measurement compared to most alternatives I can think of. How many containers could an airship transport, and how long would it take them to move it across the ocean? In theory they could directly load trucks with a sky crane mechanism. It sounds nice but very inefficient.