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> The walkability comes at the cost of tiny housing though. Is it really obligatory? I know that it is often correlated, but it is possible to build apartment

> The walkability comes at the cost of tiny housing though. Is it really obligatory? I know that it is often correlated, but it is possible to build apartment tower with decently sized apartments, in a walkable neighbourhood. Maybe it tends to be more profitable to split apartments into smaller one? While splitting house plots into smaller being less profitable and resulting in this effect?

pornel 5y ago
Walkability is highly correlated with population density. Dense walkable neighborhoods are more attractive. These two together make housing small and expensive. Walkable neighborhoods need destinations you can walk to. Businesses need a minimum number of customers to be viable, so the denser the neighborhood the more variety of destinations it will have. To avoid cars taking up the space, it's necessary to have high-frequency public transport, and that also requires high population density to be viable.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > These two together make housing small and expensive. Nothing small about these houses in the walkable neighbourhood of Roncesvalles: * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Westminster+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Westminster+Ave,+Toron... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roncesvalles,_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roncesvalles,_Toronto * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb You still have a (back)yard and can have a garage attached to a laneway. Just up the street there are more modestly sized houses (3 bedrooms usually): * https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O... Video on the concept by the Not Just Bikes channel, "Suburbs that don't Suck - Streetcar Suburbs (Riverdale, Toronto)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0
  - pornel 5y ago
    I guess for walkable as in literally able to walk somewhere that works. But I was thinking about walkability from European perspective where it means you don't need to own a car (the places you've liked to look like every household has a car). When I lived in London on multiple occasions I've had jobs within 20 minute walk from where I lived.
    - throw0101a 5y ago
      > you don't need to own a car (the places you've liked to look like every household has a car). I know people who are in the area that do not have a car, but the area has been gentrified over the last few years, so folks have cars 'just because why not' really. Still generally applies per the label of streetcar suburbs. The area in question is just south of a subway line, and Roncesvalles has a streetcar line going through it to a station.
  - bart_spoon 5y ago
    Isn't Toronto one of the most expensive cities to live in North America? If you are building large houses in a nice, walkable area, you can't fit enough people there to match demand, and so the cost of the housing spikes. The point is that you can pick 2: walkability, large houses, affordability. * Walkability, large houses = very expensive neighborhoods and gentrification * Large houses, affordable = rural areas where cars are required * Affordable, walkable neighborhood = Tiny apartments/homes in an urban area * A bit of the best/worst of all 3 = Suburbs
    - throw0101a 5y ago
      Those houses—actually the land that they're built on—are expensive nowadays because living in the urban city is cool again. Up until ~2000 it was not so, because living in the city was for immigrants and all the WASPs moved into the innter/outer suburbs with their white picket fences. The area of the links is where the Poles concentrated; to the west were the Ukrainians; to the east is Little Portugal (then onto Chinatown); to the north-east is Little Italy. Toronto is a good example of what Jane Jacobs saying 'you don't live in a city, but in a neighbourhood': * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighbourhoods_in_Toronto#Old_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighbourhoods_in_Toro... And the reason why Toronto (SW Ontario) is so expensive, especially since 2015, is because we've had so much immigration in the region, but housing hasn't kept up by pure volume (regardless of density or other factors).

pornel 5y ago

Walkability is highly correlated with population density. Dense walkable neighborhoods are more attractive. These two together make housing small and expensive. Walkable neighborhoods need destinations you can walk to. Businesses need a minimum number of customers to be viable, so the denser the neighborhood the more variety of destinations it will have. To avoid cars taking up the space, it's necessary to have high-frequency public transport, and that also requires high population density to be viable.

throw0101a 5y ago
> These two together make housing small and expensive. Nothing small about these houses in the walkable neighbourhood of Roncesvalles: * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Westminster+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Westminster+Ave,+Toron... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roncesvalles,_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roncesvalles,_Toronto * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb You still have a (back)yard and can have a garage attached to a laneway. Just up the street there are more modestly sized houses (3 bedrooms usually): * https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O... Video on the concept by the Not Just Bikes channel, "Suburbs that don't Suck - Streetcar Suburbs (Riverdale, Toronto)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0
- pornel 5y ago
  I guess for walkable as in literally able to walk somewhere that works. But I was thinking about walkability from European perspective where it means you don't need to own a car (the places you've liked to look like every household has a car). When I lived in London on multiple occasions I've had jobs within 20 minute walk from where I lived.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > you don't need to own a car (the places you've liked to look like every household has a car). I know people who are in the area that do not have a car, but the area has been gentrified over the last few years, so folks have cars 'just because why not' really. Still generally applies per the label of streetcar suburbs. The area in question is just south of a subway line, and Roncesvalles has a streetcar line going through it to a station.
- bart_spoon 5y ago
  Isn't Toronto one of the most expensive cities to live in North America? If you are building large houses in a nice, walkable area, you can't fit enough people there to match demand, and so the cost of the housing spikes. The point is that you can pick 2: walkability, large houses, affordability. * Walkability, large houses = very expensive neighborhoods and gentrification * Large houses, affordable = rural areas where cars are required * Affordable, walkable neighborhood = Tiny apartments/homes in an urban area * A bit of the best/worst of all 3 = Suburbs
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    Those houses—actually the land that they're built on—are expensive nowadays because living in the urban city is cool again. Up until ~2000 it was not so, because living in the city was for immigrants and all the WASPs moved into the innter/outer suburbs with their white picket fences. The area of the links is where the Poles concentrated; to the west were the Ukrainians; to the east is Little Portugal (then onto Chinatown); to the north-east is Little Italy. Toronto is a good example of what Jane Jacobs saying 'you don't live in a city, but in a neighbourhood': * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighbourhoods_in_Toronto#Old_Toronto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighbourhoods_in_Toro... And the reason why Toronto (SW Ontario) is so expensive, especially since 2015, is because we've had so much immigration in the region, but housing hasn't kept up by pure volume (regardless of density or other factors).