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Think the double question mark is a tad disingenuous there. Everyone will have their own peculiar circumstances. We, for example, are a family of 4 and our sho

Think the double question mark is a tad disingenuous there. Everyone will have their own peculiar circumstances. We, for example, are a family of 4 and our shop for ten days is I would guess 30/40 kilograms. The grocery is 2.5 kilometers away and the journey includes one very dangerous roundabout. So I think a car is reasonable.

matkoniecz 5y ago
> The grocery is 2.5 kilometers away and the journey includes one very dangerous roundabout. Well, if city is so poorly designed that it requires cars, then you will need a car. For comparison, I have small supermarket 250m away (on the ground floor of an apartment block) - and I do not need to cross road to get there. And withing 250m there are several other shops like bakeries, pharmacies, haidresser, convenience shops, clothes shop, fast foods...
- ivanhoe 5y ago
  >Well, if city is so poorly designed that it requires cars, then you will need a car. It also very much depends on the geography of the area, some cities simply sit on steep hill slopes and bikes are just not an option unless you're young and super-athletic. Most of "bike-cities" are in completely flat areas and it's not a coincidence.
  - germinalphrase 5y ago
    Increasingly less true with the adoption of electric bicycles.
- treis 5y ago
  I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. The other big factor that people miss in these comparisons are schools. Generally speaking housing in dense places with good schools is usually very expensive. People that can't afford that typically have the choice between crappy urban schools or good suburban schools. Most of them choose the good schools.
  - looki 5y ago
    >I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. I think you have a very wrong picture of what the GP is talking about, since this is not really the case at all. We're not talking about NY-style bodegas here. In Germany for example, cut-throat discount stores like Aldi that constantly try to lower the price floor for groceries are ubiquitous and can definitely be found in dense neighborhoods. Come to think of it, a while ago I read that they started building apartment buildings with a store integrated in the ground floor because that concept works well for them.
    - matkoniecz 5y ago
      Yeah, I have hilariously expensive convenience shop at ground floor of my apartment block. As bonus quality of products is low. Twice the distance, 20m away there is another overpriced convenience shop but with a better quality. I shop in supermarket about 250m away on ground floor of another apartment block that has quite good prices, good enough that it is not worth time and other costs to shop further away for many products.
  - matkoniecz 5y ago
    > People that can't afford that typically have the choice between crappy urban schools or good suburban schools. That sounds like USA specific problem, in Poland, Kraków all good high schools were in city center. Most of students were using bus/tram. > I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. Not really applicable in Poland, prices in Biedronka supermarket (closest to me is on ground level of apartment tower) are basically the same as in Auchan (big supermarket on suburbs). > Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. Last time I checked any savings would be eaten by extra cost and time of going over 2km to the shop.
bambax 5y ago
Ok, maybe the question should be: how often do you buy groceries. We buy most things fresh and do it every day. If we shopped once every ten days then yes, it wouldn't work.
- pfranz 5y ago
  I think that's a huge factor generally between cities and not. If you shop every 10 days you also need a large amount of space to store it. I've also noticed if I can shop every day I'm less sensitive to inventory issues. If they're out of milk today, I'll get it tomorrow. If I won't be back for 10 days, we either go without or I need to make another stop and I'm less likely to shop there.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
Well, that's $10 Uber ride, three times a month.
- scandox 5y ago
  Yeah it's conceivable...but: 1. Uber isn't big in Ireland, so not so reliable 2. Taxi or Uber won't wait for me to shop 3. Taxi or Uber won't have appropriate child seats for my kids 4. My car cost 1,400 euros and is useful in other situations. But honestly I dislike cars alot - it just makes sense at present.

matkoniecz 5y ago

> The grocery is 2.5 kilometers away and the journey includes one very dangerous roundabout. Well, if city is so poorly designed that it requires cars, then you will need a car. For comparison, I have small supermarket 250m away (on the ground floor of an apartment block) - and I do not need to cross road to get there. And withing 250m there are several other shops like bakeries, pharmacies, haidresser, convenience shops, clothes shop, fast foods...

ivanhoe 5y ago
>Well, if city is so poorly designed that it requires cars, then you will need a car. It also very much depends on the geography of the area, some cities simply sit on steep hill slopes and bikes are just not an option unless you're young and super-athletic. Most of "bike-cities" are in completely flat areas and it's not a coincidence.
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  Increasingly less true with the adoption of electric bicycles.
treis 5y ago
I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. The other big factor that people miss in these comparisons are schools. Generally speaking housing in dense places with good schools is usually very expensive. People that can't afford that typically have the choice between crappy urban schools or good suburban schools. Most of them choose the good schools.
- looki 5y ago
  >I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. I think you have a very wrong picture of what the GP is talking about, since this is not really the case at all. We're not talking about NY-style bodegas here. In Germany for example, cut-throat discount stores like Aldi that constantly try to lower the price floor for groceries are ubiquitous and can definitely be found in dense neighborhoods. Come to think of it, a while ago I read that they started building apartment buildings with a store integrated in the ground floor because that concept works well for them.
  - matkoniecz 5y ago
    Yeah, I have hilariously expensive convenience shop at ground floor of my apartment block. As bonus quality of products is low. Twice the distance, 20m away there is another overpriced convenience shop but with a better quality. I shop in supermarket about 250m away on ground floor of another apartment block that has quite good prices, good enough that it is not worth time and other costs to shop further away for many products.
- matkoniecz 5y ago
  > People that can't afford that typically have the choice between crappy urban schools or good suburban schools. That sounds like USA specific problem, in Poland, Kraków all good high schools were in city center. Most of students were using bus/tram. > I'm guessing you pay significantly more for food at these local places than you would at a big box grocery store. Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. Not really applicable in Poland, prices in Biedronka supermarket (closest to me is on ground level of apartment tower) are basically the same as in Auchan (big supermarket on suburbs). > Plus, you're less able to buy in bulk to get those time&money savings. Last time I checked any savings would be eaten by extra cost and time of going over 2km to the shop.

bambax 5y ago

Ok, maybe the question should be: how often do you buy groceries. We buy most things fresh and do it every day. If we shopped once every ten days then yes, it wouldn't work.

pfranz 5y ago
I think that's a huge factor generally between cities and not. If you shop every 10 days you also need a large amount of space to store it. I've also noticed if I can shop every day I'm less sensitive to inventory issues. If they're out of milk today, I'll get it tomorrow. If I won't be back for 10 days, we either go without or I need to make another stop and I'm less likely to shop there.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago

Well, that's $10 Uber ride, three times a month.

scandox 5y ago
Yeah it's conceivable...but: 1. Uber isn't big in Ireland, so not so reliable 2. Taxi or Uber won't wait for me to shop 3. Taxi or Uber won't have appropriate child seats for my kids 4. My car cost 1,400 euros and is useful in other situations. But honestly I dislike cars alot - it just makes sense at present.