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> Better to give them actual toys that they will grow out of, rather than a screen that they won't. I know this is true, but why is it true? We have a 4 month

> Better to give them actual toys that they will grow out of, rather than a screen that they won't. I know this is true, but why is it true? We have a 4 month old, she gets very nearly zero screen time, but on the rare occasion I have her on my lap for a few minutes during a meeting, playing a game, or video chatting with overseas family/friends, she is enamored and, yes, pacified. What precisely is the harm in that vs "a toy they will grow out of?" I will also add I had what I have long considered it a privilege that I had been introduced to computers at a very young age, as well as the internet (for better or (probably mostly?) worse).

fukpaywalls2 5y ago
i made the mistake of giving my son a laptop at an early age so he could play some puzzle games while I work on my own laptop. Later on, his mother as part of pta of a private school handed out iphones as prizes to his class. Now, we seldom have any conversations as he his immersed in his own world.
- skrbjc 5y ago
  Handed out iphones as prizes??? That sounds crazy. Also, you can change this behavior. It is crucial that you build a positive relationship with him and pull him out from the screen and into your life. Not sure how old your son is, but try setting aside a day or half a day where you both leave your phones and spend the time talking or doing an activity together.
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
I have a 2 year old who gets very little screen time. When he does get some, his facial expression looks like that of someone on drugs. He stops paying attention to anything else, he barely answers to anything, he only reacts to complain if an ad interrupts the video, or to move his head or complain if you're between him and the screen. Intuitively, that doesn't look healthy to me, I don't need to look at data to know that. Especially because it's not a reaction that he has to anything else (no other thing, even things he likes a lot, sucks his attention that much... breastfeeding gets close but even when breastfeeding he's less of a zombie than in front of a screen, he does play with things using his hand, foot, etc.) so it doesn't feel normal. And I find it very sad to see kids who spend hours a day in that state instead of interacting with the world, playing, etc. At 4 months old it's not so obvious because they interact less in general and don't have a lot of obvious states beyond "crying" and "not crying", but check his reactions to the screen when she gets a little older and you will see.
- Moru 5y ago
  I would not worry too much about this. I see this behaviour in my kid but also her mother and mothers mother. It's something that runs in the family. And her family didn't have TV or other media the last 50 years and they still all have the zombie trait. Our family however grew up with TV from early age and we do not have the zombie trait.
- krageon 5y ago
  > looks like that of someone on drugs So relaxed (or very activated)? Generally what people think of when they say "like they're on drugs" are just normal states that they disapprove of because it suits the narrative. In this case, the narrative is "screen time is bad". That means it is suitable to condemn it by making a parallel with something destructive, to make it feel like it has some association (which it neither physically nor mentally has been proven to have).
  - valvar 5y ago
    To further illustrate that point, would you say that someone who is deeply concentrated while reading a book or solving a puzzle looks like they're on drugs?
    - watwut 5y ago
      If the kid throws massive temper tamtrum when I want it to put off the book/puzzle and go eat dinner with family, absolutely yes. If the kid refuses to engage with others, mistreats siblings or other relatives when the activity ends, yes. If the kid reads/solves and then behaves normally, then it is different.
      - krageon 5y ago
        If your child throws any kind of tantrum when you tell them to do something, regardless of activity, that is an indicator something isn't right in the core of how they were raised: Tantrums are bad behaviour and should never happen. That's entirely separate from what they are doing at the time, good behaviour (towards you) should be entirely independent of the environment.
watwut 5y ago
It is rather absurd to worry about impact of "screen". There is no difference between your baby being exposed to tablet and to TV playing in the background or any other device. It does matter what the screen does and what plays on it. If you use it to chat with family or play youtube videos targeted at adults (like crafts or lectures), the kid will get bored quite quickly. If you put there teletubbies or kiddy game, the kid will watch for long. If you pack tablet with only drawing software and selected kiddy games, you will have good experience. If you put there games addictive to kids or games that stresses them, you will have bad experience. If you put there too difficult games, the kid will have no use for it. It really depends a lot on which software/games/activities you choose and how you setup house rules. And at this age, you have all the control.
- the_af 5y ago
  Again, this is not my experience at all. The screen (interactive or just the TV) is a powerful attractor of my 2-year old and she will be glued to it almost regardless of the actual content. I do agree a tablet and the TV are similar in this regard.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
    I wonder if it's because she hasn't seen the screen as often? We grew with mine with a screen always on (work from home). We watch animes during lunch or as background when doing boring work. We play videogames, so more exposure. Point is, unless there is relevant content, she won't look at the screen (3 years old). We skip all the videos for kids (we do have occasional movies), but those videos with songs made me want to smash the screen, she just turns braindead. I wonder if all it's needed is a parent observing behavior and evolution of behavior to determine each activity's health based on a kid-by-kid basis, rather than generalizing.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
My daughter (3 years old) plays on the Nintendo switch. I never even considered tablet games, as a parent I raise the bar for harder things so she learns. The games she play are Kirby Star Allies and Yoshi's crafted world. She is not in trance like other parents described, she actually describes to me everything she does (which turns frustrating when you are focused). She also shuts the game down "after 1 level", when asked. Or immediately if necessary (we don't want to use that card, we want to respect her time). I think there is a big difference in the type of videogame. She has the best hand-eye coordination of her class (games are played with a controller) and she developed concepts like "background vs foreground", as well as aiming and an enormous amount of other things. That being said, after a certain amount of time, she will get unsettled. If she doesn't move away by herself, you have to remind her. What I think I see is "unrecognized boredom". She doesn't realize that yet, although she is getting better (I saw her pause and go do something else more than once lately). Finally, I play videogames with her. That has been amazing so far, I'm glad we did. All of this to say: toys gets boring way faster, but it's also easier to detect boredom. Creative toys do help, that's basically why duplo/wooden train/magnets are the top 3. I play with her and we have to buy new toys mainly because I get bored to play always with them (keep in mind that we talk about many, many sessions). Given that, yeah, I can see her getting bored faster. Videogames have way more content and variation. Do remember that paper, glue and colors are very cheap and can create a lot of stuff though!

fukpaywalls2 5y ago

i made the mistake of giving my son a laptop at an early age so he could play some puzzle games while I work on my own laptop. Later on, his mother as part of pta of a private school handed out iphones as prizes to his class. Now, we seldom have any conversations as he his immersed in his own world.

skrbjc 5y ago
Handed out iphones as prizes??? That sounds crazy. Also, you can change this behavior. It is crucial that you build a positive relationship with him and pull him out from the screen and into your life. Not sure how old your son is, but try setting aside a day or half a day where you both leave your phones and spend the time talking or doing an activity together.

Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago

I have a 2 year old who gets very little screen time. When he does get some, his facial expression looks like that of someone on drugs. He stops paying attention to anything else, he barely answers to anything, he only reacts to complain if an ad interrupts the video, or to move his head or complain if you're between him and the screen. Intuitively, that doesn't look healthy to me, I don't need to look at data to know that. Especially because it's not a reaction that he has to anything else (no other thing, even things he likes a lot, sucks his attention that much... breastfeeding gets close but even when breastfeeding he's less of a zombie than in front of a screen, he does play with things using his hand, foot, etc.) so it doesn't feel normal. And I find it very sad to see kids who spend hours a day in that state instead of interacting with the world, playing, etc. At 4 months old it's not so obvious because they interact less in general and don't have a lot of obvious states beyond "crying" and "not crying", but check his reactions to the screen when she gets a little older and you will see.

Moru 5y ago
I would not worry too much about this. I see this behaviour in my kid but also her mother and mothers mother. It's something that runs in the family. And her family didn't have TV or other media the last 50 years and they still all have the zombie trait. Our family however grew up with TV from early age and we do not have the zombie trait.
krageon 5y ago
> looks like that of someone on drugs So relaxed (or very activated)? Generally what people think of when they say "like they're on drugs" are just normal states that they disapprove of because it suits the narrative. In this case, the narrative is "screen time is bad". That means it is suitable to condemn it by making a parallel with something destructive, to make it feel like it has some association (which it neither physically nor mentally has been proven to have).
- valvar 5y ago
  To further illustrate that point, would you say that someone who is deeply concentrated while reading a book or solving a puzzle looks like they're on drugs?
  - watwut 5y ago
    If the kid throws massive temper tamtrum when I want it to put off the book/puzzle and go eat dinner with family, absolutely yes. If the kid refuses to engage with others, mistreats siblings or other relatives when the activity ends, yes. If the kid reads/solves and then behaves normally, then it is different.
    - krageon 5y ago
      If your child throws any kind of tantrum when you tell them to do something, regardless of activity, that is an indicator something isn't right in the core of how they were raised: Tantrums are bad behaviour and should never happen. That's entirely separate from what they are doing at the time, good behaviour (towards you) should be entirely independent of the environment.

watwut 5y ago

It is rather absurd to worry about impact of "screen". There is no difference between your baby being exposed to tablet and to TV playing in the background or any other device. It does matter what the screen does and what plays on it. If you use it to chat with family or play youtube videos targeted at adults (like crafts or lectures), the kid will get bored quite quickly. If you put there teletubbies or kiddy game, the kid will watch for long. If you pack tablet with only drawing software and selected kiddy games, you will have good experience. If you put there games addictive to kids or games that stresses them, you will have bad experience. If you put there too difficult games, the kid will have no use for it. It really depends a lot on which software/games/activities you choose and how you setup house rules. And at this age, you have all the control.

the_af 5y ago
Again, this is not my experience at all. The screen (interactive or just the TV) is a powerful attractor of my 2-year old and she will be glued to it almost regardless of the actual content. I do agree a tablet and the TV are similar in this regard.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
  I wonder if it's because she hasn't seen the screen as often? We grew with mine with a screen always on (work from home). We watch animes during lunch or as background when doing boring work. We play videogames, so more exposure. Point is, unless there is relevant content, she won't look at the screen (3 years old). We skip all the videos for kids (we do have occasional movies), but those videos with songs made me want to smash the screen, she just turns braindead. I wonder if all it's needed is a parent observing behavior and evolution of behavior to determine each activity's health based on a kid-by-kid basis, rather than generalizing.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

My daughter (3 years old) plays on the Nintendo switch. I never even considered tablet games, as a parent I raise the bar for harder things so she learns. The games she play are Kirby Star Allies and Yoshi's crafted world. She is not in trance like other parents described, she actually describes to me everything she does (which turns frustrating when you are focused). She also shuts the game down "after 1 level", when asked. Or immediately if necessary (we don't want to use that card, we want to respect her time). I think there is a big difference in the type of videogame. She has the best hand-eye coordination of her class (games are played with a controller) and she developed concepts like "background vs foreground", as well as aiming and an enormous amount of other things. That being said, after a certain amount of time, she will get unsettled. If she doesn't move away by herself, you have to remind her. What I think I see is "unrecognized boredom". She doesn't realize that yet, although she is getting better (I saw her pause and go do something else more than once lately). Finally, I play videogames with her. That has been amazing so far, I'm glad we did. All of this to say: toys gets boring way faster, but it's also easier to detect boredom. Creative toys do help, that's basically why duplo/wooden train/magnets are the top 3. I play with her and we have to buy new toys mainly because I get bored to play always with them (keep in mind that we talk about many, many sessions). Given that, yeah, I can see her getting bored faster. Videogames have way more content and variation. Do remember that paper, glue and colors are very cheap and can create a lot of stuff though!