7 ms·

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't confusing for me. He sexually assaulted her, then at some later point in time they had a consensual relationship. There's

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't confusing for me. He sexually assaulted her, then at some later point in time they had a consensual relationship. There's not a contradiction there.

Mandelmus 5y ago
Why did she consent to a relationship after having been raped and traumatised by him before?
- robinduckett 5y ago
  Gee, I wonder why.
- diob 5y ago
  Why do folks stay in abusive relationships or situations? Humans are complicated. I can't explain their point of view or the context, but I'm sure there's a reason. Sometimes it can be financial even. Trauma is a hell of a thing. Think about kids who've been abused by their parents. They typically still can't help but try and earn their love. Human brains are. . . fucky, to say the least.
  - raducu 5y ago
    > Why? Why does Stockholm syndrome exist? Because it benefits survival in a violent world. Not politically correct, and absolutely not condoning violence, but a lot of women have a deep primeval sexual response(they lubricate) to displays of physical strength, dominance, aggression and violence.
    - hello4353 5y ago
      "they lubricate". The same applies to some men(dominatrix, mistress, bdsm). How to reason this? My point is this is not gender specific.
      - raducu 5y ago
        Can you explain how men lubricate? I'm not sure why people get triggered by anybody mentioning these facts. Do you think that I or others are saying women should have no agency because they lubricate or "worse" have orgasms during rape? > My point is this is not gender specific I think the only stuff that is firewalled into gender specificity could be stuff that's in the Y chromosome, and even that would be debatable.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > Why does Stockholm syndrome exist? It might not. https://twitter.com/sezmohammed/status/1252500993972948992 https://twitter.com/sezmohammed/status/1252500993972948992
      - raducu 5y ago
        What about occam's razor? I mean, setting aside the insinuations of woke individuals. Does Stockholm syndrome exist? No doubt in my mind that it exists from the Sabine Women to the Abduction at Shiloh and every ancient siege aftermath to the war brides of WW2, the evidence is overwhelming.
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Sabine Women May be entirely mythical, and certainly doesn't leave us with any useful evidence to evaluate from a psychotherapy standpoint. > Abduction at Shiloh OK, second pre-Christ example on the list, with only the Bible as evidence of its occurrence. Not super promising. > war brides of WW2 I'm reasonably certain that didn't involve kidnapping at all.
        raducu 5y ago
        > May be entirely mythical, and certainly doesn't leave us with any useful evidence to evaluate from a psychotherapy standpoint. I know quite a bit about psychotherapy (Schema Therapy, CBT, DBT, Transactional Analysis) and I see very little use of such evolutionary explanations, even if correct to any form of therapy. If Stockholm syndrome was real and if women were evolutionary inclined to physiologically respond to their captors sexual advances and later "infatuate" (so as not to suffer violence and that the children survive), how could that be useful in any way to psychotherapy or law or any other area of human life?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        What evolutionary explanation? What are you talking about? The three examples you cited as evidence of Stockholm Syndrome are made up of two unverifiable cases from over two thousand years ago, and a third that isn't Stockholm Syndrome.
- true_religion 5y ago
  Why did a powerful communist party leader manage to get “consent” from someone he previously raped… well probably because despite resigning, he still retained the power, money and influence to make other people cower before him. One could easily go into this so called consensual relationship thinking that by not resisting they are at least not getting hurt.
csomar 5y ago
> He sexually assaulted her, then at some later point in time they had a consensual relationship. I understand that the consensual relationship doesn't rule out the sexual assault. I do have, however, trouble digesting such relations. Is it normal that people get into relations with other people that they intend to take to court?
- louhike 5y ago
  "Is it normal?" just sounds like you saying "it isn't normal, she did something bad", almost putting the guilt on her. The thing is, it's just of no importance. We do not have the whole context, she might have loved him or saw an interest in the relationship, but it does not matter for this. It does not change the crime of the sexual assault.
  - secondaryacct 5y ago
    I disagree. Yes the law is the law and he should not have raped her, but she also should have had the moral fortitude not to then get into an affair with him. The guy checks all the boxes, and will have to be punished, but giving the appearance of a scorned mistress doesn't help her convince something so wrong happened a decade ago. But, no need to be perfect to he heard, and she'll have to have her chance.
    - krageon 5y ago
      > she also should have had the moral fortitude not to then get into an affair with him. > giving the appearance of a scorned mistress doesn't help her convince Given that we are certain both of those things can exist together, the case must at least be investigated. People should not have to be punished (or disbelieved) for being what they are: imperfect beings.
    - posterboy 5y ago
      GP: > "Is it normal?" just sounds like you saying "it isn't normal, she did something bad", almost putting the guilt on her. You: > I disagree. Also you: > she also should have had the moral fortitude not to ... This seems to be a contradiction, unless you disagree on some metalevel, disagreeing with the course of events in general.

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't confusing for me. He sexually assaulted her, then at some later point in time they had a consensual relationship. There's not a contradiction there.

Mandelmus 5y ago

Why did she consent to a relationship after having been raped and traumatised by him before?

robinduckett 5y ago
Gee, I wonder why.
diob 5y ago
Why do folks stay in abusive relationships or situations? Humans are complicated. I can't explain their point of view or the context, but I'm sure there's a reason. Sometimes it can be financial even. Trauma is a hell of a thing. Think about kids who've been abused by their parents. They typically still can't help but try and earn their love. Human brains are. . . fucky, to say the least.
- raducu 5y ago
  > Why? Why does Stockholm syndrome exist? Because it benefits survival in a violent world. Not politically correct, and absolutely not condoning violence, but a lot of women have a deep primeval sexual response(they lubricate) to displays of physical strength, dominance, aggression and violence.
  - hello4353 5y ago
    "they lubricate". The same applies to some men(dominatrix, mistress, bdsm). How to reason this? My point is this is not gender specific.
    - raducu 5y ago
      Can you explain how men lubricate? I'm not sure why people get triggered by anybody mentioning these facts. Do you think that I or others are saying women should have no agency because they lubricate or "worse" have orgasms during rape? > My point is this is not gender specific I think the only stuff that is firewalled into gender specificity could be stuff that's in the Y chromosome, and even that would be debatable.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Why does Stockholm syndrome exist? It might not. https://twitter.com/sezmohammed/status/1252500993972948992 https://twitter.com/sezmohammed/status/1252500993972948992
    - raducu 5y ago
      What about occam's razor? I mean, setting aside the insinuations of woke individuals. Does Stockholm syndrome exist? No doubt in my mind that it exists from the Sabine Women to the Abduction at Shiloh and every ancient siege aftermath to the war brides of WW2, the evidence is overwhelming.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Sabine Women May be entirely mythical, and certainly doesn't leave us with any useful evidence to evaluate from a psychotherapy standpoint. > Abduction at Shiloh OK, second pre-Christ example on the list, with only the Bible as evidence of its occurrence. Not super promising. > war brides of WW2 I'm reasonably certain that didn't involve kidnapping at all.
        raducu 5y ago
        > May be entirely mythical, and certainly doesn't leave us with any useful evidence to evaluate from a psychotherapy standpoint. I know quite a bit about psychotherapy (Schema Therapy, CBT, DBT, Transactional Analysis) and I see very little use of such evolutionary explanations, even if correct to any form of therapy. If Stockholm syndrome was real and if women were evolutionary inclined to physiologically respond to their captors sexual advances and later "infatuate" (so as not to suffer violence and that the children survive), how could that be useful in any way to psychotherapy or law or any other area of human life?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        What evolutionary explanation? What are you talking about? The three examples you cited as evidence of Stockholm Syndrome are made up of two unverifiable cases from over two thousand years ago, and a third that isn't Stockholm Syndrome.
true_religion 5y ago
Why did a powerful communist party leader manage to get “consent” from someone he previously raped… well probably because despite resigning, he still retained the power, money and influence to make other people cower before him. One could easily go into this so called consensual relationship thinking that by not resisting they are at least not getting hurt.

csomar 5y ago

> He sexually assaulted her, then at some later point in time they had a consensual relationship. I understand that the consensual relationship doesn't rule out the sexual assault. I do have, however, trouble digesting such relations. Is it normal that people get into relations with other people that they intend to take to court?

louhike 5y ago
"Is it normal?" just sounds like you saying "it isn't normal, she did something bad", almost putting the guilt on her. The thing is, it's just of no importance. We do not have the whole context, she might have loved him or saw an interest in the relationship, but it does not matter for this. It does not change the crime of the sexual assault.
- secondaryacct 5y ago
  I disagree. Yes the law is the law and he should not have raped her, but she also should have had the moral fortitude not to then get into an affair with him. The guy checks all the boxes, and will have to be punished, but giving the appearance of a scorned mistress doesn't help her convince something so wrong happened a decade ago. But, no need to be perfect to he heard, and she'll have to have her chance.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > she also should have had the moral fortitude not to then get into an affair with him. > giving the appearance of a scorned mistress doesn't help her convince Given that we are certain both of those things can exist together, the case must at least be investigated. People should not have to be punished (or disbelieved) for being what they are: imperfect beings.
  - posterboy 5y ago
    GP: > "Is it normal?" just sounds like you saying "it isn't normal, she did something bad", almost putting the guilt on her. You: > I disagree. Also you: > she also should have had the moral fortitude not to ... This seems to be a contradiction, unless you disagree on some metalevel, disagreeing with the course of events in general.