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>> The government should serve the people. And its members should In the real world the government serves the party people. This happens in democratic systems

>> The government should serve the people. And its members should In the real world the government serves the party people. This happens in democratic systems as well but in a communist/uni-party system is rapart as there is no election, no opposition and no real judiciary system! CCP can never be wrong or do wrong things because that would mean it must held accountable(by who?) and/or be changed...

redis_mlc 5y ago
What's fascinating in China is the extradjudicial repossession of residential land. Normally one gets a 99-year land lease to build a house, but the CCP has been repossessing the land after 30-40 years as it increases in value. The CCP sends a goon squad with no uniform or id and a backhoe to tear down the house. Sometimes they wait for the "owner" to go to work, sometimes they just pull the house down with the occupants inside. But here's the wrinkle. Since it's extrajudicial, the owner can kill the goons and no arrest or prosecution follows. This actually happened in 2020. An owner threw a brick at the backhoe operator, IIRC, killing him, without being arrested. Although the court system is fixed in China, the CCP doesn't want the publicity, since it would reveal a war on citizens' property. So if you can keep killing the goons, you keep your house until the next round.
FooBarWidget 5y ago
Despite not having elections for higher representatives (China does have elections for lower-level representatives) and independent judiciary, China does have accountability for government officials, as well as citizen consultation on policies. It's also not true that China is a country in which CCP "can never be wrong", because criticisms and protests are common. These claims are backed by eyewitnesses (expats living in China) as well as research. Cyrus Janssen: The Truth about Protests in China 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcScSCTgbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcScSCTgbM Harvard: Conditional Receptivity to Citizen Participation: Evidence From a Survey Experiment in China http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.703.3&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.703... American Journal of Political Sciences: Sources of Authoritarian Responsiveness: A Field Experiment in China https://china.ucsd.edu/_files/pe-2014/10062014_Paper_Jen_Pan.pdf https://china.ucsd.edu/_files/pe-2014/10062014_Paper_Jen_Pan... Interesting bits from this last source: - In China, citizen engagement and protest do not contribute to regime change. Instead citizen engagement contributes to regime survival. - Section 6: “upper levels of government use citizens as an oversight mechanism on subnational leaders, which imbues citizens with the ability to sanction lower level leaders, and generates responsiveness among local leaders to citizen demands.” China is neither a western democratic system, nor a totalitarian/communist/dictatorial system. Instead, China is a third distinct category, fitting neither of the first two.
- enaaem 5y ago
  Chinese can vote but only for party approved candidates. https://www.refworld.org/docid/4ec268b328.html https://www.refworld.org/docid/4ec268b328.html
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    Low-level elections in China are by no means perfect. That I do not dispute. But you know that your source is Radio Free Asia, a CIA-funded propaganda organization, right?
- thefounder 5y ago
  Yeah, they are elections but first you must be a "club member" like in the mafia elections ...of course everyone can become the big boss but first it must prove loyalty to the "family" aka "party". There is a whole process from becoming a made man to reaching the top chair and become the big boss. Everthing in a communist party is about loyalty and fear not merit or election. If you don't like censorship or try to challenge the direction of the CCP you are out of the club for life and maybe even in jail. Imagine Jack Ma saying the Xi is a stupid bear and doesn't know anything about finance or technology and that he (Jack Ma) would be a better leader for China so the people should be let to vote him as China's leader.
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  "These claims are backed by eyewitnesses (expats living in China) as well as research." Inland Chinese call these government agents "Little pinkies" If they were Russian, those agents would be called spies.
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    What does rigorous research from renowned institutions such as Harvard have to do with "little pinkies" a.k.a. nationalistic Chinese Internet users? Are you saying that their research methodology does not sufficiently account for bias? If so, can you point out which part of the methodology is flawed and why?

redis_mlc 5y ago

What's fascinating in China is the extradjudicial repossession of residential land. Normally one gets a 99-year land lease to build a house, but the CCP has been repossessing the land after 30-40 years as it increases in value. The CCP sends a goon squad with no uniform or id and a backhoe to tear down the house. Sometimes they wait for the "owner" to go to work, sometimes they just pull the house down with the occupants inside. But here's the wrinkle. Since it's extrajudicial, the owner can kill the goons and no arrest or prosecution follows. This actually happened in 2020. An owner threw a brick at the backhoe operator, IIRC, killing him, without being arrested. Although the court system is fixed in China, the CCP doesn't want the publicity, since it would reveal a war on citizens' property. So if you can keep killing the goons, you keep your house until the next round.

FooBarWidget 5y ago

Despite not having elections for higher representatives (China does have elections for lower-level representatives) and independent judiciary, China does have accountability for government officials, as well as citizen consultation on policies. It's also not true that China is a country in which CCP "can never be wrong", because criticisms and protests are common. These claims are backed by eyewitnesses (expats living in China) as well as research. Cyrus Janssen: The Truth about Protests in China 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcScSCTgbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcScSCTgbM Harvard: Conditional Receptivity to Citizen Participation: Evidence From a Survey Experiment in China http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.703.3&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.703... American Journal of Political Sciences: Sources of Authoritarian Responsiveness: A Field Experiment in China https://china.ucsd.edu/_files/pe-2014/10062014_Paper_Jen_Pan.pdf https://china.ucsd.edu/_files/pe-2014/10062014_Paper_Jen_Pan... Interesting bits from this last source: - In China, citizen engagement and protest do not contribute to regime change. Instead citizen engagement contributes to regime survival. - Section 6: “upper levels of government use citizens as an oversight mechanism on subnational leaders, which imbues citizens with the ability to sanction lower level leaders, and generates responsiveness among local leaders to citizen demands.” China is neither a western democratic system, nor a totalitarian/communist/dictatorial system. Instead, China is a third distinct category, fitting neither of the first two.

enaaem 5y ago
Chinese can vote but only for party approved candidates. https://www.refworld.org/docid/4ec268b328.html https://www.refworld.org/docid/4ec268b328.html
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  Low-level elections in China are by no means perfect. That I do not dispute. But you know that your source is Radio Free Asia, a CIA-funded propaganda organization, right?
thefounder 5y ago
Yeah, they are elections but first you must be a "club member" like in the mafia elections ...of course everyone can become the big boss but first it must prove loyalty to the "family" aka "party". There is a whole process from becoming a made man to reaching the top chair and become the big boss. Everthing in a communist party is about loyalty and fear not merit or election. If you don't like censorship or try to challenge the direction of the CCP you are out of the club for life and maybe even in jail. Imagine Jack Ma saying the Xi is a stupid bear and doesn't know anything about finance or technology and that he (Jack Ma) would be a better leader for China so the people should be let to vote him as China's leader.
catlikesshrimp 5y ago
"These claims are backed by eyewitnesses (expats living in China) as well as research." Inland Chinese call these government agents "Little pinkies" If they were Russian, those agents would be called spies.
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  What does rigorous research from renowned institutions such as Harvard have to do with "little pinkies" a.k.a. nationalistic Chinese Internet users? Are you saying that their research methodology does not sufficiently account for bias? If so, can you point out which part of the methodology is flawed and why?