6 ms·

Actually they kind of did (see "BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6) below": "A total of 43,548 participants

by mns 5y ago

Actually they kind of did (see "BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6) below": "A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo; BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6). Similar vaccine efficacy (generally 90 to 100%) was observed across subgroups defined by age, sex, race, ethnicity, baseline body-mass index, and the presence of coexisting conditions. Among 10 cases of severe Covid-19 with onset after the first dose, 9 occurred in placebo recipients and 1 in a BNT162b2 recipient. The safety profile of BNT162b2 was characterized by short-term, mild-to-moderate pain at the injection site, fatigue, and headache. The incidence of serious adverse events was low and was similar in the vaccine and placebo groups." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 Maybe this is legalese, but I am pretty sure your average Joe online, that reads all kind of weird things on Facebook or other places, won't understand the subtleties of this language.

vigilantmav 5y ago
The study that you are referring to took place "Between July 27, 2020, and November 14, 2020". The delta variant started in India in late 2020 and wasn't spreading widely within the United States until 2021. It was listed as a variant-of-concern by the WHO on May 31, 2021. So the research you are referring to is in regards to other variants of sars-cov2
blackbear_ 5y ago
There is nothing about stopping transmission in there.
- mns 5y ago
  prevent: to stop something from happening or someone from doing something https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prevent?q=preventing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prevent?...
  - blackbear_ 5y ago
    In this case the appropriate definition of "prevention" and "what is prevented" is to be found in the protocol of the trial [1], not in a dictionary of the English language. If I am reading correctly (but do correct me if I am wrong because I am not 100% certain), only symptomatic cases are counted. Hence, it is quite possible for the vaccine to stop the symptoms, but not the transmission between individuals. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_file/nejmoa2034577_protocol.pdf https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_f...
fsh 5y ago
This quote doesn't say anything about whether the vaccine reduces transmission of the virus. Even large phase-3 studies like the ones done for the COVID vaccines don't have anywhere near the statistical power to determine this. Now we have epidemiological data that shows a clear reduction in transmission, but not as much as the vaccines protect against serious disease. Here is another quote from the same paper [1]: "This report includes 2 months of follow-up after the second dose of vaccine for half the trial participants and up to 14 weeks’ maximum follow-up for a smaller subset. Therefore, both the occurrence of adverse events more than 2 to 3.5 months after the second dose and more comprehensive information on the duration of protection remain to be determined." [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
- anonymouse008 5y ago
  Flowchart: Person A >Transmission> Person B >Transmission> Person C Person A >Transmission> Person B (Prevention)
  - blackbear_ 5y ago
    This flowchart would be correct if "prevention" referred to "covid infection", but unfortunately it refers to "covid infection with symptoms". Transmission is not prevented, in this case.
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      well, a vaccinated person supposed to have a 2x shorter interval to spread covid before recovering from it.
api 5y ago
Wasn't that the pre-Delta variant(s)?
lamontcg 5y ago
From September 12, 2020: "A COVID-19 Vaccine May Be Only 50% Effective. Is That Good Enough?" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/12/911987987/a-covid-19-vaccine-may-be-only-50-effective-is-that-good-enough https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/12/9119879... August 7, 2020: "Fauci says COVID-19 vaccine may only be 50 percent effective" https://nypost.com/2020/08/07/fauci-says-covid-19-vaccine-may-only-be-50-percent-effective/ https://nypost.com/2020/08/07/fauci-says-covid-19-vaccine-ma...

by mns 5y ago

vigilantmav 5y ago

The study that you are referring to took place "Between July 27, 2020, and November 14, 2020". The delta variant started in India in late 2020 and wasn't spreading widely within the United States until 2021. It was listed as a variant-of-concern by the WHO on May 31, 2021. So the research you are referring to is in regards to other variants of sars-cov2

blackbear_ 5y ago

There is nothing about stopping transmission in there.

mns 5y ago
prevent: to stop something from happening or someone from doing something https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prevent?q=preventing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prevent?...
- blackbear_ 5y ago
  In this case the appropriate definition of "prevention" and "what is prevented" is to be found in the protocol of the trial [1], not in a dictionary of the English language. If I am reading correctly (but do correct me if I am wrong because I am not 100% certain), only symptomatic cases are counted. Hence, it is quite possible for the vaccine to stop the symptoms, but not the transmission between individuals. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_file/nejmoa2034577_protocol.pdf https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_f...

fsh 5y ago

This quote doesn't say anything about whether the vaccine reduces transmission of the virus. Even large phase-3 studies like the ones done for the COVID vaccines don't have anywhere near the statistical power to determine this. Now we have epidemiological data that shows a clear reduction in transmission, but not as much as the vaccines protect against serious disease. Here is another quote from the same paper [1]: "This report includes 2 months of follow-up after the second dose of vaccine for half the trial participants and up to 14 weeks’ maximum follow-up for a smaller subset. Therefore, both the occurrence of adverse events more than 2 to 3.5 months after the second dose and more comprehensive information on the duration of protection remain to be determined." [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

anonymouse008 5y ago
Flowchart: Person A >Transmission> Person B >Transmission> Person C Person A >Transmission> Person B (Prevention)
- blackbear_ 5y ago
  This flowchart would be correct if "prevention" referred to "covid infection", but unfortunately it refers to "covid infection with symptoms". Transmission is not prevented, in this case.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    well, a vaccinated person supposed to have a 2x shorter interval to spread covid before recovering from it.

api 5y ago

Wasn't that the pre-Delta variant(s)?

lamontcg 5y ago

From September 12, 2020: "A COVID-19 Vaccine May Be Only 50% Effective. Is That Good Enough?" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/12/911987987/a-covid-19-vaccine-may-be-only-50-effective-is-that-good-enough https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/12/9119879... August 7, 2020: "Fauci says COVID-19 vaccine may only be 50 percent effective" https://nypost.com/2020/08/07/fauci-says-covid-19-vaccine-may-only-be-50-percent-effective/ https://nypost.com/2020/08/07/fauci-says-covid-19-vaccine-ma...