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This article popped up on HN a few months ago advocating 100% hydrogen airships for 'crew-less' cargo shipping https://www.thecgo.org/benchmark/bring-back-hyd

This article popped up on HN a few months ago advocating 100% hydrogen airships for 'crew-less' cargo shipping https://www.thecgo.org/benchmark/bring-back-hydrogen-lifting-gas/ https://www.thecgo.org/benchmark/bring-back-hydrogen-lifting...

ncmncm 5y ago
This is the winning strategy. There is no need for crew on cargo craft.
- nwah1 5y ago
  But they are still flying bombs, even without crew.
  - voakbasda 5y ago
    Flying bombs that are being controlled remotely. And we know there’s no possible way that a hacking or ransomware group could exploit that channel and fly it into a couple of towers, right? Inconceivable!!
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      A gas bag that bumped into a building would bounce off. Or rip and the hydrogen shoot up to the sky. So, no, not especially conceivable. Or plausible.
      - simongr3dal 5y ago
        What's to stop the hackers from running the halt and catch fire instruction?
        tait 5y ago
        +1 for obscure references
    - r00fus 5y ago
      Fly-by-wire control of passenger airplanes hitting the World Trade Center was the plot of the 2001 series The Lone Gunmen[1]. Yes, that was 6 months before 9/11. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#Similarities_to_9/11_attacks_in_pilot_storyline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#Si...
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    So are airplanes? And other things, like literal bombs and missiles?
    - nwah1 5y ago
      Yes, 9/11 proved that.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Except, they are not flying bombs. Notably, the only people killed when the Hindenberg blew were on board. And, fewer than half of them. The flames in the film were the (very flammable!) gas bag itself and the kerosene fuel. The escaping gas went up and away. A modern craft would not be made of readily flammable material.
    - trutannus 5y ago
      Your comments are filled with misinformation: The gas-bag and paint theory is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg-paint/ https://www.airships.net/hindenburg-paint/ The "nobody died from the hydrogen" line is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#advocates https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#advocate... That the craft is made out of flammable material is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#flammable-cover https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#flammabl...
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > The "nobody died from the hydrogen" line is debunked I don't see that claim in the comments you're replying to.
  - throwaway946513 5y ago
    Lest we forget drone strikes.
q1w2 5y ago
Can a micro satellite be launched from a hydrogen filled balloon? NASA has calculations of hydrogen balloons up to 90km, carrying a 10kg object. [0] Wind at that altitude can be as much as ~50 m/s, and occasionally even travel from west to east (important for orbital launching). [1] http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm Low Earth orbit requires at minimum ~6.5km/s, so launching from the equator into the right stratospheric wind could allow a 10kg launch into orbit from a balloon if it can accelerate from Earth's natural rotation plus the wind speed, totaling around 500m/s, to 6500m/s. [2] Traditional small rockets seem to have a lower limit in the 100s of kg total mass. Using a solid microrocket(s) [3], you might be able to get a payload into orbit between 10-500 grams. I know MIT was working on this as well as micro-jet engines... [4] [0] https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_Thinking/designing_a_high_altitude.htm https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_... [1] http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed [3] https://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/microrockets/masters_report.pdf https://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/microrockets/mas... [4] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Performance-of-a-High-Speed-Microscale-Turbocharger-Savoulides/78866cdff0df286b4b32364f5f2761610b86a8a8 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Performance-of-a-High-...
- Pxtl 5y ago
  So like, a rocket the size of a lamppost launching from a balloon the size of a tractor-trailer to deliver a payload the size of a softball? Neat!
- m4rtink 5y ago
  Rocket launches from high altitude baloons have been done: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon If you mainly care about altitude as with a sounding rocket, it can help quite a bit. Also some launche loop designs have parts of the structure supported by inflatable members. And there are even plans for a rather exotic airship design that could be flown to orbit with the help of solar powered electric engines: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace

ncmncm 5y ago

This is the winning strategy. There is no need for crew on cargo craft.

nwah1 5y ago
But they are still flying bombs, even without crew.
- voakbasda 5y ago
  Flying bombs that are being controlled remotely. And we know there’s no possible way that a hacking or ransomware group could exploit that channel and fly it into a couple of towers, right? Inconceivable!!
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    A gas bag that bumped into a building would bounce off. Or rip and the hydrogen shoot up to the sky. So, no, not especially conceivable. Or plausible.
    - simongr3dal 5y ago
      What's to stop the hackers from running the halt and catch fire instruction?
      - tait 5y ago
        +1 for obscure references
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Fly-by-wire control of passenger airplanes hitting the World Trade Center was the plot of the 2001 series The Lone Gunmen[1]. Yes, that was 6 months before 9/11. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#Similarities_to_9/11_attacks_in_pilot_storyline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#Si...
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  So are airplanes? And other things, like literal bombs and missiles?
  - nwah1 5y ago
    Yes, 9/11 proved that.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Except, they are not flying bombs. Notably, the only people killed when the Hindenberg blew were on board. And, fewer than half of them. The flames in the film were the (very flammable!) gas bag itself and the kerosene fuel. The escaping gas went up and away. A modern craft would not be made of readily flammable material.
  - trutannus 5y ago
    Your comments are filled with misinformation: The gas-bag and paint theory is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg-paint/ https://www.airships.net/hindenburg-paint/ The "nobody died from the hydrogen" line is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#advocates https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#advocate... That the craft is made out of flammable material is debunked: https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#flammable-cover https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths/#flammabl...
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > The "nobody died from the hydrogen" line is debunked I don't see that claim in the comments you're replying to.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  Lest we forget drone strikes.

q1w2 5y ago

Can a micro satellite be launched from a hydrogen filled balloon? NASA has calculations of hydrogen balloons up to 90km, carrying a 10kg object. [0] Wind at that altitude can be as much as ~50 m/s, and occasionally even travel from west to east (important for orbital launching). [1] http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm Low Earth orbit requires at minimum ~6.5km/s, so launching from the equator into the right stratospheric wind could allow a 10kg launch into orbit from a balloon if it can accelerate from Earth's natural rotation plus the wind speed, totaling around 500m/s, to 6500m/s. [2] Traditional small rockets seem to have a lower limit in the 100s of kg total mass. Using a solid microrocket(s) [3], you might be able to get a payload into orbit between 10-500 grams. I know MIT was working on this as well as micro-jet engines... [4] [0] https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_Thinking/designing_a_high_altitude.htm https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_... [1] http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm http://www.ccpo.odu.edu/SEES/ozone/class/Chap_2/2_4.htm [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed [3] https://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/microrockets/masters_report.pdf https://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/projects/microrockets/mas... [4] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Performance-of-a-High-Speed-Microscale-Turbocharger-Savoulides/78866cdff0df286b4b32364f5f2761610b86a8a8 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Performance-of-a-High-...

Pxtl 5y ago
So like, a rocket the size of a lamppost launching from a balloon the size of a tractor-trailer to deliver a payload the size of a softball? Neat!
m4rtink 5y ago
Rocket launches from high altitude baloons have been done: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon If you mainly care about altitude as with a sounding rocket, it can help quite a bit. Also some launche loop designs have parts of the structure supported by inflatable members. And there are even plans for a rather exotic airship design that could be flown to orbit with the help of solar powered electric engines: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP_Aerospace