5 ms·

And they are no different in relation to risks of transmission than what we know are between 40% and 60% of vaccinated susceptible to asymptomatic breakthrough

by pbak 5y ago

And they are no different in relation to risks of transmission than what we know are between 40% and 60% of vaccinated susceptible to asymptomatic breakthrough cases. Are you saying we should hurt the young to protect the old nevertheless, which would be the result of such a policy ?

alecst 5y ago
It’s not clear to me what your position is. We are talking rare harms, perhaps dozens per million, and no deaths that I know of. So I’m unconcerned. As more data comes out maybe my mind will change and I’ll agree with you. But you seem to be nipping for a fight and I don’t really care to engage.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  You don't know of any deaths because most physicians and the media steadfastly refuse to attribute any to the vaccine. There are thousands of reports in VAERS, many of them of deaths in very young, healthy people hours or days after getting the vaccine. It's not the Pfizer vaccine, but the AstraZeneca vaccine has been publicly acknowledged as the cause of BBC presenter Lisa Shaw's death.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    If you even want to cite VAERS as a reliable source of _anything_ it means you don't even know the first thing about the topic.
    - pbak 5y ago
      It is not reliable, for sure, and we don't know by what factor or which way the error goes. It might show ten times the real number, or half the real number. That would be either 1'700 people or 34'000 dead in the US alone. I wouldn't discount the lower limit either, 1'700 is still a lot and far from a small risk.
      - Daishiman 5y ago
        You've essentially admitted it's an unreliable source that can be complete fiction for all we know. It's not validated by any medical institution, no one has jumped to defend it, none of the claims can be independently validated. I might as well just take my pandemic advice from a radio talk show host.
    - AndrewBissell 5y ago
      You're just robotically repeating fact-check talking points. Lots of young healthy people have been killed by the Covid vaccine and, for all its problems, the reason they're waving gigantic "DO NOT LOOK HERE" signs around VAERS is to give people like you an excuse to keep your heads firmly planted in the sand.
      - Daishiman 5y ago
        > Lots of young healthy people have been killed by the Covid vaccine Cite your sources, you have a wildly outlandish claim that is beyond the expert consensus on the topic.
- pbak 5y ago
  > It’s not clear to me what your position is. [...] As more data comes out maybe my mind will change and I’ll agree with you. But you seem to be nipping for a fight and I don’t really care to engage. I am a big proponent of the precautionary principle when the health of the young is concerned. I also believe that such things ought to be held sacred (whether you are religious or not). While precautions must of course be taken to protect those at risk, one of the consequences of my positions would be that yes, even as childless as I am, I'd rather lose vaccinated > 40 y.o. people to a breakthrough infection than risk hurting a child in the short or long terms. This is why I'd rather wait for data to come in before vaccinating the young than the other way round.

by pbak 5y ago

alecst 5y ago

It’s not clear to me what your position is. We are talking rare harms, perhaps dozens per million, and no deaths that I know of. So I’m unconcerned. As more data comes out maybe my mind will change and I’ll agree with you. But you seem to be nipping for a fight and I don’t really care to engage.

AndrewBissell 5y ago
You don't know of any deaths because most physicians and the media steadfastly refuse to attribute any to the vaccine. There are thousands of reports in VAERS, many of them of deaths in very young, healthy people hours or days after getting the vaccine. It's not the Pfizer vaccine, but the AstraZeneca vaccine has been publicly acknowledged as the cause of BBC presenter Lisa Shaw's death.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  If you even want to cite VAERS as a reliable source of _anything_ it means you don't even know the first thing about the topic.
  - pbak 5y ago
    It is not reliable, for sure, and we don't know by what factor or which way the error goes. It might show ten times the real number, or half the real number. That would be either 1'700 people or 34'000 dead in the US alone. I wouldn't discount the lower limit either, 1'700 is still a lot and far from a small risk.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      You've essentially admitted it's an unreliable source that can be complete fiction for all we know. It's not validated by any medical institution, no one has jumped to defend it, none of the claims can be independently validated. I might as well just take my pandemic advice from a radio talk show host.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    You're just robotically repeating fact-check talking points. Lots of young healthy people have been killed by the Covid vaccine and, for all its problems, the reason they're waving gigantic "DO NOT LOOK HERE" signs around VAERS is to give people like you an excuse to keep your heads firmly planted in the sand.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      > Lots of young healthy people have been killed by the Covid vaccine Cite your sources, you have a wildly outlandish claim that is beyond the expert consensus on the topic.
pbak 5y ago
> It’s not clear to me what your position is. [...] As more data comes out maybe my mind will change and I’ll agree with you. But you seem to be nipping for a fight and I don’t really care to engage. I am a big proponent of the precautionary principle when the health of the young is concerned. I also believe that such things ought to be held sacred (whether you are religious or not). While precautions must of course be taken to protect those at risk, one of the consequences of my positions would be that yes, even as childless as I am, I'd rather lose vaccinated > 40 y.o. people to a breakthrough infection than risk hurting a child in the short or long terms. This is why I'd rather wait for data to come in before vaccinating the young than the other way round.