5 ms·

I don't know how to feel about this. One the one hand this is good for sites that needs to be more global. But I mainly build stuff for Europe and I don't want

by o_m 5y ago

I don't know how to feel about this. One the one hand this is good for sites that needs to be more global. But I mainly build stuff for Europe and I don't want anything to do with USA when storing personal data. I hope they keep the seperation between Europe and US clear.

mrweasel 5y ago
One can hope, otherwise I can see European customers move off Hetzner. We have a number of customers who do not want US staff to be able to access their servers and VMs.
ptman 5y ago
I think the main thing for GDPR is that US based employees should not have access to manage EU datacenters remotely.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  That surprises me (not that I'm particularly educated on this), any links to more info on why GDPR requires that?
  - mol4711 5y ago
    The Schrems II judgement might be applicable. I know that in the EU-based company I work for we have strict requirement for all cloud providers to comply with Schrems II, and not send/store any personal data to outside EU. https://www.gdprsummary.com/schrems-ii/ https://www.gdprsummary.com/schrems-ii/
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      i was asking specifically about "US based employees should not have access to manage", which isn't necessarily the same thing as "not send/store any personal data outside the EU". You could have data stored inside the EU, but then saying no US-based employees can have access to it seems like another further requirement? Although it may be one under GDPR? But that's what I meant asking for more info about, sorry!
- tmikaeld 5y ago
  Why would an US employee leak personal data just because they’re in the US? It would be a clear violation of employment and probably criminal.
  - martin8412 5y ago
    US court says hand over the data. German court says that's illegal to do. Complying is illegal and so is not complying.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Not Complying with US law is also illegal, now imagine who has more to say in that regard. Hetzner should split up in two Company's. BTW: The CLOUD Act applies to all electronic communication service or remote computing service providers that operate in the U.S, whether those providers are established in the United States or another country.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    So one concern (and it's not just a theoretical concern; it has happened) is that a US court forces the US branch to use access it has to data held by the EU branch to exfiltrate data. Companies with the highest standards on this stuff will want either a pure-EU host or a host structured such that this can't happen.
    - spaniard89277 5y ago
      Hmm, this is definitely worrying.
  - zibzab 5y ago
    Fully legal thanks to "cloud act": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
tmikaeld 5y ago
If you setup the server in the EU why would anyone in US have access to it?
- vlovich123 5y ago
  This is such a far departure from where I was hoping the Internet would look like growing up. Makes me sad political borders are now viewed as a feature.
  - Proven 5y ago
    It's a big feature for users who value freedom of speech. It's laughable that a guy from the EU doesn't get it - their freedom of speech is shit.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      This is nothing to do with freedom of speech; the issue is differing laws on data privacy between the EU and US (and repeated failure of Safe Harbour and other regulatory attempts to paper over the cracks).
    - nix23 5y ago
      > It's a big feature for users who value freedom of speech. That would be Iceland then, NOT the US.
  - oblio 5y ago
    The internet can't just paper over the fact that there are fundamental differences on how people do things across the world.
    - 0des 5y ago
      The internet was supposed to be the last free land where nerds could be able to create without worrying which part of the floor is lava.
GrayShade 5y ago
They're saying: > Hetzner's own team of technicians in Germany provides customer support for the Hetzner Cloud servers in both Europe and Ashburn, VA. See below "How do I contact support?" We hope to soon expand the hours for the support team, and we will make an announcement when this happens. https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/general/locations/#who-provides-customer-support-for-the-servers https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/general/locations/#who-provid...

by o_m 5y ago

mrweasel 5y ago

One can hope, otherwise I can see European customers move off Hetzner. We have a number of customers who do not want US staff to be able to access their servers and VMs.

ptman 5y ago

I think the main thing for GDPR is that US based employees should not have access to manage EU datacenters remotely.

jrochkind1 5y ago
That surprises me (not that I'm particularly educated on this), any links to more info on why GDPR requires that?
- mol4711 5y ago
  The Schrems II judgement might be applicable. I know that in the EU-based company I work for we have strict requirement for all cloud providers to comply with Schrems II, and not send/store any personal data to outside EU. https://www.gdprsummary.com/schrems-ii/ https://www.gdprsummary.com/schrems-ii/
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    i was asking specifically about "US based employees should not have access to manage", which isn't necessarily the same thing as "not send/store any personal data outside the EU". You could have data stored inside the EU, but then saying no US-based employees can have access to it seems like another further requirement? Although it may be one under GDPR? But that's what I meant asking for more info about, sorry!
tmikaeld 5y ago
Why would an US employee leak personal data just because they’re in the US? It would be a clear violation of employment and probably criminal.
- martin8412 5y ago
  US court says hand over the data. German court says that's illegal to do. Complying is illegal and so is not complying.
  - nix23 5y ago
    Not Complying with US law is also illegal, now imagine who has more to say in that regard. Hetzner should split up in two Company's. BTW: The CLOUD Act applies to all electronic communication service or remote computing service providers that operate in the U.S, whether those providers are established in the United States or another country.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  So one concern (and it's not just a theoretical concern; it has happened) is that a US court forces the US branch to use access it has to data held by the EU branch to exfiltrate data. Companies with the highest standards on this stuff will want either a pure-EU host or a host structured such that this can't happen.
  - spaniard89277 5y ago
    Hmm, this is definitely worrying.
- zibzab 5y ago
  Fully legal thanks to "cloud act": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

tmikaeld 5y ago

If you setup the server in the EU why would anyone in US have access to it?

vlovich123 5y ago
This is such a far departure from where I was hoping the Internet would look like growing up. Makes me sad political borders are now viewed as a feature.
- Proven 5y ago
  It's a big feature for users who value freedom of speech. It's laughable that a guy from the EU doesn't get it - their freedom of speech is shit.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    This is nothing to do with freedom of speech; the issue is differing laws on data privacy between the EU and US (and repeated failure of Safe Harbour and other regulatory attempts to paper over the cracks).
  - nix23 5y ago
    > It's a big feature for users who value freedom of speech. That would be Iceland then, NOT the US.
- oblio 5y ago
  The internet can't just paper over the fact that there are fundamental differences on how people do things across the world.
  - 0des 5y ago
    The internet was supposed to be the last free land where nerds could be able to create without worrying which part of the floor is lava.

GrayShade 5y ago

They're saying: > Hetzner's own team of technicians in Germany provides customer support for the Hetzner Cloud servers in both Europe and Ashburn, VA. See below "How do I contact support?" We hope to soon expand the hours for the support team, and we will make an announcement when this happens. https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/general/locations/#who-provides-customer-support-for-the-servers https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/general/locations/#who-provid...