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The alternative is to knowingly let people get infected. Almost everyone will get exposed. The vaccine is safer than infection, both in the short and long term.

by alecst 5y ago

The alternative is to knowingly let people get infected. Almost everyone will get exposed. The vaccine is safer than infection, both in the short and long term. Saying “they got away with it” makes it sound like a conspiracy.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
angelzen 5y ago
"Got away with it" in the sense that it went under the radar of most media and average people. I only found about it recently, and it was quite a bit of surprise, especially in the context of "science" being thrown away so liberally during this pandemic.
- jatone 5y ago
  they were very up front about it.... 'operation light speed' they were explicitly removing barriers to speed up development and deployment.
- Tagbert 5y ago
  I recall this being reported in several reports some months ago. It just wasn’t being treated as some failure or conspiracy.
tata71 5y ago
The alternative is having the control data originally plotted out.
peteradio 5y ago
It's dissonance inducing to say "both in the short and long term" when the point of the trial is to determine long term outcome.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  As I've been told repeatedly, the science is settled and there is consensus from >99% of scientists that the politically critical Covid vaccine is completely safe. Questioning any of this just means that you're a science denier and blasphemer.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
miles 5y ago
> The vaccine is safer than infection Not for everyone, sadly: Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r... > US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid Why COVID-19 Vaccines Should Not Be Required for All Americans https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vacci... > Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and editor in chief of MedPage Today, argues that mandating vaccines for "every living, walking American" is, as of now, not well-supported by science. ... The risk of hospitalization from COVID-19 in kids ages 5 to 17 is 0.3 per million for the week ending July 24, 2021, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. We also know that the risk of hospitalization after the second vaccine dose due to myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart muscle, is about 50 per million in that same age group.
- alecst 5y ago
  Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that pediatric study. In hindsight it’s not surprising that children might need a different quantity of vaccine than adults to tilt the balance further away from the harms caused by rare reactions.
  - miles 5y ago
    > it’s not surprising that children might need a different quantity of vaccine Or perhaps none at all, given that the survival rate for unvaccinated children ages 0 to 19 is 99.9973%: Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 in community-dwelling populations with emphasis on the elderly: An overview https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v...
    - alecst 5y ago
      Yea but children live among the rest of us.

by alecst 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

angelzen 5y ago

"Got away with it" in the sense that it went under the radar of most media and average people. I only found about it recently, and it was quite a bit of surprise, especially in the context of "science" being thrown away so liberally during this pandemic.

jatone 5y ago
they were very up front about it.... 'operation light speed' they were explicitly removing barriers to speed up development and deployment.
Tagbert 5y ago
I recall this being reported in several reports some months ago. It just wasn’t being treated as some failure or conspiracy.

tata71 5y ago

The alternative is having the control data originally plotted out.

peteradio 5y ago

It's dissonance inducing to say "both in the short and long term" when the point of the trial is to determine long term outcome.

Leparamour 5y ago
As I've been told repeatedly, the science is settled and there is consensus from >99% of scientists that the politically critical Covid vaccine is completely safe. Questioning any of this just means that you're a science denier and blasphemer.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

miles 5y ago

> The vaccine is safer than infection Not for everyone, sadly: Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r... > US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid Why COVID-19 Vaccines Should Not Be Required for All Americans https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vaccines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/why-covid-19-vacci... > Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and editor in chief of MedPage Today, argues that mandating vaccines for "every living, walking American" is, as of now, not well-supported by science. ... The risk of hospitalization from COVID-19 in kids ages 5 to 17 is 0.3 per million for the week ending July 24, 2021, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. We also know that the risk of hospitalization after the second vaccine dose due to myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart muscle, is about 50 per million in that same age group.

alecst 5y ago
Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that pediatric study. In hindsight it’s not surprising that children might need a different quantity of vaccine than adults to tilt the balance further away from the harms caused by rare reactions.
- miles 5y ago
  > it’s not surprising that children might need a different quantity of vaccine Or perhaps none at all, given that the survival rate for unvaccinated children ages 0 to 19 is 99.9973%: Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 in community-dwelling populations with emphasis on the elderly: An overview https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v...
  - alecst 5y ago
    Yea but children live among the rest of us.