5 ms·

They want you to take the device to the dealership.

nyxaiur 5y ago
The SSDs of 2015-2017 macbooks start failing and they are soldered on the board. I have a 12" that I can only boot from external now otherwise the device would be dead. With the M1 models you don't even have the chance to do this. Apple won't even change the failed ssds they will sell you a new logic board for the prize of a new machine. It's infuriating and the only reason I won't buy a machine until they make user replaceable storage the norm again.
- aluminussoma 5y ago
  I suspect they began soldering it because the cable connecting the disk drive had a lot of problems in older MacBooks. Soldering may have been an easy fix for that. I hate the soldering, too. I'm just offering an explanation that may make some sense given the context.
  - nyxaiur 5y ago
    pcie and nvme ssds use ports that are similar to ram slots there is no more cable involved.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      And 2.5 inch drives can and often do have ports directly mounted on the laptop motherboard. If you don't want to use a cable, then you simply don't use a cable. Nothing else changes.
    - handrous 5y ago
      It's less the cable than the connector, so, similar trouble with nvme ports (and ram slots, for that matter). I've barely had exposure to supporting laptop hardware, and have seen "thing shimmied loose" or "contact corroded" as the root cause of problems more than once.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    I like your Ockham razor reasoning, but given the history of this company, it would be very difficult to defend this claim. Soldering the SSD and memory made the device unupgradeable (in contrast to pre-2013 models where I have currently have 2x2TB!).
  - adolph 5y ago
    What cable? As far as I can recall, everything not directly soldered since about 2013 was ssd mounted to motherboard using either M.2 or a similar proprietary connector. I suspect it was Cook-ish financial engineering and that trademark Apple hubris (that they finally got over to re-add ports in the most recent MBP).
    - aluminussoma 5y ago
      Here's an older thread on the cable: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7794520 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7794520 This was pre-2013. So perhaps the proprietary connector was a reaction to the cable?
- asdff 5y ago
  I don't think it will be the price of a new machine, it will be the price of a flat rate repair which is a fixed price for any sort of work past a certain point (as far as the genius bar worker described to me at least). For my 2020 laptop it could explode in a fireball and Apple will repair it for $418 before tax, my flat rate for this laptop.
  - nyxaiur 5y ago
    680 Euros quoted from the apple store in berlin for a 2012 macbook.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Everything apple is vastly more expensive in europe, can't be compared to US contexts. You pay a few hundred more at least for iphones too. Seriously, a good population of people actually fly to Portland to stock up on apple gear, and fly back to Europe or India or other places. No sales taxes in Oregon too so you save even more, sometimes its enough to pay for airfare compared to buying in California even with 10% sales taxes being somewhat typical there.
      - nyxaiur 5y ago
        I don't think it would turn out a plus if I fly over to get it serviced.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  I noticed that AppleCare, which use to be a one-time purchase of 3-year coverage, is now offered as an annual purchase that can be renewed indefinitely. Presumably this means that, as long as I pay my $150 rent, they will replace my logic board, with its failed SSD, for free?
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Maybe a deductible, but otherwise I have to assume yeah. That’s not cheap though.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
easton 5y ago
Perhaps, but there’s a security angle to this as well. iBoot is stored on the internal SSD. If you want to bypass the internal SSD entirely for the boot process, you must now trust that any external drives plugged in have non-evil versions of iBoot installed, as the Mac will now have to go to every external device and say “can you tell me how to boot?”. If the internal drive is the only place to get iBoot it makes the security strategy way easier (since the only way to write to it is via DFU connected to Apple Configurator). We know only people with the keys can modify the internal drive, so we don’t have to keep certificates or something else around to verify it is trustworthy. Who knows where the external drive’s copy of iBoot is from. You could make it so there’s a break glass copy of iBoot on another chip, but then that’s something they can’t update if there’s a bug.

The SSDs of 2015-2017 macbooks start failing and they are soldered on the board. I have a 12" that I can only boot from external now otherwise the device would be dead. With the M1 models you don't even have the chance to do this. Apple won't even change the failed ssds they will sell you a new logic board for the prize of a new machine. It's infuriating and the only reason I won't buy a machine until they make user replaceable storage the norm again.

aluminussoma 5y ago
I suspect they began soldering it because the cable connecting the disk drive had a lot of problems in older MacBooks. Soldering may have been an easy fix for that. I hate the soldering, too. I'm just offering an explanation that may make some sense given the context.
- nyxaiur 5y ago
  pcie and nvme ssds use ports that are similar to ram slots there is no more cable involved.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    And 2.5 inch drives can and often do have ports directly mounted on the laptop motherboard. If you don't want to use a cable, then you simply don't use a cable. Nothing else changes.
  - handrous 5y ago
    It's less the cable than the connector, so, similar trouble with nvme ports (and ram slots, for that matter). I've barely had exposure to supporting laptop hardware, and have seen "thing shimmied loose" or "contact corroded" as the root cause of problems more than once.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  I like your Ockham razor reasoning, but given the history of this company, it would be very difficult to defend this claim. Soldering the SSD and memory made the device unupgradeable (in contrast to pre-2013 models where I have currently have 2x2TB!).
- adolph 5y ago
  What cable? As far as I can recall, everything not directly soldered since about 2013 was ssd mounted to motherboard using either M.2 or a similar proprietary connector. I suspect it was Cook-ish financial engineering and that trademark Apple hubris (that they finally got over to re-add ports in the most recent MBP).
  - aluminussoma 5y ago
    Here's an older thread on the cable: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7794520 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7794520 This was pre-2013. So perhaps the proprietary connector was a reaction to the cable?
asdff 5y ago
I don't think it will be the price of a new machine, it will be the price of a flat rate repair which is a fixed price for any sort of work past a certain point (as far as the genius bar worker described to me at least). For my 2020 laptop it could explode in a fireball and Apple will repair it for $418 before tax, my flat rate for this laptop.
- nyxaiur 5y ago
  680 Euros quoted from the apple store in berlin for a 2012 macbook.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Everything apple is vastly more expensive in europe, can't be compared to US contexts. You pay a few hundred more at least for iphones too. Seriously, a good population of people actually fly to Portland to stock up on apple gear, and fly back to Europe or India or other places. No sales taxes in Oregon too so you save even more, sometimes its enough to pay for airfare compared to buying in California even with 10% sales taxes being somewhat typical there.
    - nyxaiur 5y ago
      I don't think it would turn out a plus if I fly over to get it serviced.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lowbloodsugar 5y ago
I noticed that AppleCare, which use to be a one-time purchase of 3-year coverage, is now offered as an annual purchase that can be renewed indefinitely. Presumably this means that, as long as I pay my $150 rent, they will replace my logic board, with its failed SSD, for free?
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Maybe a deductible, but otherwise I have to assume yeah. That’s not cheap though.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

easton 5y ago

Perhaps, but there’s a security angle to this as well. iBoot is stored on the internal SSD. If you want to bypass the internal SSD entirely for the boot process, you must now trust that any external drives plugged in have non-evil versions of iBoot installed, as the Mac will now have to go to every external device and say “can you tell me how to boot?”. If the internal drive is the only place to get iBoot it makes the security strategy way easier (since the only way to write to it is via DFU connected to Apple Configurator). We know only people with the keys can modify the internal drive, so we don’t have to keep certificates or something else around to verify it is trustworthy. Who knows where the external drive’s copy of iBoot is from. You could make it so there’s a break glass copy of iBoot on another chip, but then that’s something they can’t update if there’s a bug.